xp won't recognise third SATA drive

Have been using XP Pro with an AsRock ConroeXFire-eSata2 mobo and two sata
HDDs and it' s been nice and stable.
Now trying to add a third SATA drive but although the BIOS sees the third
drive it doesn't show in XP (neither an icon in my computer nor in Disk
Management.)
I formatted this third drive by disconnecting the second one temporarily so
windows would recognise it and then format and make active in Disk
Management.
But reconnecting back all 3 disks I can only see two again, except in the
BIOS.
Bios is AMI P1.40 09/06/2006.
To me this looks like a Windows and/or driver issue and not BIOS as the bios
sees the three drives. But I could be wrong.
Help please.
Thanks

davesurrey wrote:
> Have been using XP Pro with an AsRock ConroeXFire-eSata2 mobo and two sata
> HDDs and it' s been nice and stable.
> Now trying to add a third SATA drive but although the BIOS sees the third
> drive it doesn't show in XP (neither an icon in my computer nor in Disk
> Management.)
> I formatted this third drive by disconnecting the second one temporarily so
> windows would recognise it and then format and make active in Disk
> Management.
> But reconnecting back all 3 disks I can only see two again, except in the
> BIOS.
> Bios is AMI P1.40 09/06/2006.
> To me this looks like a Windows and/or driver issue and not BIOS as the bios
> sees the three drives. But I could be wrong.
> Help please.
> Thanks
>
>

Verify how the Southbridge ports are set up.

The ICH7 has four SATA and an IDE connector, capable of handling six disks.
Intel splits these up as three groups of two, for the purposes of this
discussion. Two SATA behave like an old ribbon cable, so that is why
I think of them as working in pairs.

If a person wanted to install Win98, Win98 expects command and control
addresses in the I/O space, and the disks to be at IRQ14 and IRQ15. Intel
set up a mode, called the "legacy" mode, where any four disks could be
mapped to look like that. But the four disks would be arranged in pairs.
For example, if in "legacy" mode, the four SATA could work as if they
were two ribbon cables, but that would leave the IDE port disabled.
Or, you could use a pair of SATA, the second pair of SATA would be
disabled, and the IDE port would work. Legacy supports four of six
potential drive spots.

Your symptoms sound like the system was installed, while the chipset
was in legacy mode.

In Native mode, all six disks can be used at the same time. All disks
are mapped into the PCI address space. (Command and control registers
are an offset to the PCI Base Address Register or BAR.) Win2K and
WinXP have native mode drivers that understand this PCI mapping, when
a certain minimum Service Pack is being used.

Looking in the manual, the BIOS default appears to be Enhanced. So if you
hadn't touched the settings, all would be fine. (I've seen
at least one product, that uses a Legacy setting as the default.) I'm
looking at PDF page 50. Enhanced is the one I'd use. "Compatible"
is the Legacy operating option, and will limit the number of working
ports to four of six.

http://download.asrock.com/manual/Co...ire-eSATA2.pdf

So the question is, what would happen if you change the BIOS setting,
while an existing OS is installed ?

Maybe someone else knows the answer to that. I'm not going to guess.

Generally, you want to select the exactly right settings on page 50,
before installing any OS, because the consequences of a mistake, mean
lots of cleanup work later. For example, on Intel chipsets, moving
between RAID for boot, and non-RAID for boot, in terms of drivers,
is a PITA.

For some background on Native versus Legacy, Intel has this document.
It doesn't explain everything, but will give a few hints about how it
works.

(SATA Programmers Reference Manual - PDF page 11 is best)

http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/manuals/252671.htm

Paul

"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:g4j4md$slv$1@aioe.org...
> davesurrey wrote:
>> Have been using XP Pro with an AsRock ConroeXFire-eSata2 mobo and two
>> sata HDDs and it' s been nice and stable.
>> Now trying to add a third SATA drive but although the BIOS sees the third
>> drive it doesn't show in XP (neither an icon in my computer nor in Disk
>> Management.)
>> I formatted this third drive by disconnecting the second one temporarily
>> so windows would recognise it and then format and make active in Disk
>> Management.
>> But reconnecting back all 3 disks I can only see two again, except in the
>> BIOS.
>> Bios is AMI P1.40 09/06/2006.
>> To me this looks like a Windows and/or driver issue and not BIOS as the
>> bios sees the three drives. But I could be wrong.
>> Help please.
>> Thanks
>
> Verify how the Southbridge ports are set up.
>
> The ICH7 has four SATA and an IDE connector, capable of handling six
> disks.
> Intel splits these up as three groups of two, for the purposes of this
> discussion. Two SATA behave like an old ribbon cable, so that is why
> I think of them as working in pairs.
>
> If a person wanted to install Win98, Win98 expects command and control
> addresses in the I/O space, and the disks to be at IRQ14 and IRQ15. Intel
> set up a mode, called the "legacy" mode, where any four disks could be
> mapped to look like that. But the four disks would be arranged in pairs.
> For example, if in "legacy" mode, the four SATA could work as if they
> were two ribbon cables, but that would leave the IDE port disabled.
> Or, you could use a pair of SATA, the second pair of SATA would be
> disabled, and the IDE port would work. Legacy supports four of six
> potential drive spots.
>
> Your symptoms sound like the system was installed, while the chipset
> was in legacy mode.
>
> In Native mode, all six disks can be used at the same time. All disks
> are mapped into the PCI address space. (Command and control registers
> are an offset to the PCI Base Address Register or BAR.) Win2K and
> WinXP have native mode drivers that understand this PCI mapping, when
> a certain minimum Service Pack is being used.
>
> Looking in the manual, the BIOS default appears to be Enhanced. So if you
> hadn't touched the settings, all would be fine. (I've seen
> at least one product, that uses a Legacy setting as the default.) I'm
> looking at PDF page 50. Enhanced is the one I'd use. "Compatible"
> is the Legacy operating option, and will limit the number of working
> ports to four of six.
>
> http://download.asrock.com/manual/Co...ire-eSATA2.pdf
>
> So the question is, what would happen if you change the BIOS setting,
> while an existing OS is installed ?
>
> Maybe someone else knows the answer to that. I'm not going to guess.
>
> Generally, you want to select the exactly right settings on page 50,
> before installing any OS, because the consequences of a mistake, mean
> lots of cleanup work later. For example, on Intel chipsets, moving
> between RAID for boot, and non-RAID for boot, in terms of drivers,
> is a PITA.
>
> For some background on Native versus Legacy, Intel has this document.
> It doesn't explain everything, but will give a few hints about how it
> works.
>
> (SATA Programmers Reference Manual - PDF page 11 is best)
>
> http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/manuals/252671.htm
>
> Paul

Hi Paul,
Thanks for your very comprehensive reply. However (although you were not to
know) I knew the bulk of that already.
My set-up uses Extended mode already and this was set-up prior to WinXP
install.
I have read elsewhere that trying to change to AHCI mode may help (but there
again no-one has confirmed this) but changing it may well cause WinXP to
freeze. Guess what? I can confirm it does.
Where do I go from here?
Does this look like a WinXp issue or the BIOS of what?
Thanks

davesurrey wrote:
> "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:g4j4md$slv$1@aioe.org...
>> davesurrey wrote:
>>> Have been using XP Pro with an AsRock ConroeXFire-eSata2 mobo and two
>>> sata HDDs and it' s been nice and stable.
>>> Now trying to add a third SATA drive but although the BIOS sees the third
>>> drive it doesn't show in XP (neither an icon in my computer nor in Disk
>>> Management.)
>>> I formatted this third drive by disconnecting the second one temporarily
>>> so windows would recognise it and then format and make active in Disk
>>> Management.
>>> But reconnecting back all 3 disks I can only see two again, except in the
>>> BIOS.
>>> Bios is AMI P1.40 09/06/2006.
>>> To me this looks like a Windows and/or driver issue and not BIOS as the
>>> bios sees the three drives. But I could be wrong.
>>> Help please.
>>> Thanks
>> Verify how the Southbridge ports are set up.
>>
>> The ICH7 has four SATA and an IDE connector, capable of handling six
>> disks.
>> Intel splits these up as three groups of two, for the purposes of this
>> discussion. Two SATA behave like an old ribbon cable, so that is why
>> I think of them as working in pairs.
>>
>> If a person wanted to install Win98, Win98 expects command and control
>> addresses in the I/O space, and the disks to be at IRQ14 and IRQ15. Intel
>> set up a mode, called the "legacy" mode, where any four disks could be
>> mapped to look like that. But the four disks would be arranged in pairs.
>> For example, if in "legacy" mode, the four SATA could work as if they
>> were two ribbon cables, but that would leave the IDE port disabled.
>> Or, you could use a pair of SATA, the second pair of SATA would be
>> disabled, and the IDE port would work. Legacy supports four of six
>> potential drive spots.
>>
>> Your symptoms sound like the system was installed, while the chipset
>> was in legacy mode.
>>
>> In Native mode, all six disks can be used at the same time. All disks
>> are mapped into the PCI address space. (Command and control registers
>> are an offset to the PCI Base Address Register or BAR.) Win2K and
>> WinXP have native mode drivers that understand this PCI mapping, when
>> a certain minimum Service Pack is being used.
>>
>> Looking in the manual, the BIOS default appears to be Enhanced. So if you
>> hadn't touched the settings, all would be fine. (I've seen
>> at least one product, that uses a Legacy setting as the default.) I'm
>> looking at PDF page 50. Enhanced is the one I'd use. "Compatible"
>> is the Legacy operating option, and will limit the number of working
>> ports to four of six.
>>
>> http://download.asrock.com/manual/Co...ire-eSATA2.pdf
>>
>> So the question is, what would happen if you change the BIOS setting,
>> while an existing OS is installed ?
>>
>> Maybe someone else knows the answer to that. I'm not going to guess.
>>
>> Generally, you want to select the exactly right settings on page 50,
>> before installing any OS, because the consequences of a mistake, mean
>> lots of cleanup work later. For example, on Intel chipsets, moving
>> between RAID for boot, and non-RAID for boot, in terms of drivers,
>> is a PITA.
>>
>> For some background on Native versus Legacy, Intel has this document.
>> It doesn't explain everything, but will give a few hints about how it
>> works.
>>
>> (SATA Programmers Reference Manual - PDF page 11 is best)
>>
>> http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/manuals/252671.htm
>>
>> Paul
>
> Hi Paul,
> Thanks for your very comprehensive reply. However (although you were not to
> know) I knew the bulk of that already.
> My set-up uses Extended mode already and this was set-up prior to WinXP
> install.
> I have read elsewhere that trying to change to AHCI mode may help (but there
> again no-one has confirmed this) but changing it may well cause WinXP to
> freeze. Guess what? I can confirm it does.
> Where do I go from here?
> Does this look like a WinXp issue or the BIOS of what?
> Thanks
>

I would have thought Enhanced IDE would have worked for all six ports.
If the port is physically working, the drive should be detected.

AHCI and RAID require a driver, and there is the chicken versus egg problem,
where if you switch to AHCI, the system won't boot. And if you leave the
startup option alone, the new driver won't install unless it sees the
enumeration it wants. So there isn't an easy solution for moving from vanilla
mode, to AHCI or RAID. (AHCI supports hot plug, which is the first advantage
of that driver, that comes to mind.)

A repair install is one option. Press F6 and offer drivers. And then put
back any missing Service Packs or Security patches via Windows Update.

A second option I've seen described, is moving the C: drive to another controller.
For example, installing a separate SATA card, install drivers for the SATA card,
move the drive over to the SATA card and boot from it, change the Southbridge
setting and then install the new Southbridge driver. And finally, move the drive
connector back to the Southbridge port.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/19...alling-windows

I've heard that there exists a recipe, to change the driver without doing
either of those options, but I haven't been able to find the recipe lately.
Finding the right search terms to use, is always fun.

Paul

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:38:07 -0400, Paul wrote:

> davesurrey wrote:
>> "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
>> news:g4j4md$slv$1@aioe.org...
>>> davesurrey wrote:
>>>> Have been using XP Pro with an AsRock ConroeXFire-eSata2 mobo and two
>>>> sata HDDs and it' s been nice and stable. Now trying to add a third
>>>> SATA drive but although the BIOS sees the third drive it doesn't show
>>>> in XP (neither an icon in my computer nor in Disk Management.)
>>>> I formatted this third drive by disconnecting the second one
>>>> temporarily so windows would recognise it and then format and make
>>>> active in Disk Management.
>>>> But reconnecting back all 3 disks I can only see two again, except in
>>>> the BIOS.
>>>> Bios is AMI P1.40 09/06/2006.
>>>> To me this looks like a Windows and/or driver issue and not BIOS as
>>>> the bios sees the three drives. But I could be wrong. Help please.
>>>> Thanks
>>> Verify how the Southbridge ports are set up.
>>>
>>> The ICH7 has four SATA and an IDE connector, capable of handling six
>>> disks.
>>> Intel splits these up as three groups of two, for the purposes of this
>>> discussion. Two SATA behave like an old ribbon cable, so that is why I
>>> think of them as working in pairs.
>>>
>>> If a person wanted to install Win98, Win98 expects command and control
>>> addresses in the I/O space, and the disks to be at IRQ14 and IRQ15.
>>> Intel set up a mode, called the "legacy" mode, where any four disks
>>> could be mapped to look like that. But the four disks would be
>>> arranged in pairs. For example, if in "legacy" mode, the four SATA
>>> could work as if they were two ribbon cables, but that would leave the
>>> IDE port disabled. Or, you could use a pair of SATA, the second pair
>>> of SATA would be disabled, and the IDE port would work. Legacy
>>> supports four of six potential drive spots.
>>>
>>> Your symptoms sound like the system was installed, while the chipset
>>> was in legacy mode.
>>>
>>> In Native mode, all six disks can be used at the same time. All disks
>>> are mapped into the PCI address space. (Command and control registers
>>> are an offset to the PCI Base Address Register or BAR.) Win2K and
>>> WinXP have native mode drivers that understand this PCI mapping, when
>>> a certain minimum Service Pack is being used.
>>>
>>> Looking in the manual, the BIOS default appears to be Enhanced. So if
>>> you hadn't touched the settings, all would be fine. (I've seen at
>>> least one product, that uses a Legacy setting as the default.) I'm
>>> looking at PDF page 50. Enhanced is the one I'd use. "Compatible" is
>>> the Legacy operating option, and will limit the number of working
>>> ports to four of six.
>>>
>>> http://download.asrock.com/manual/Co...ire-eSATA2.pdf
>>>
>>> So the question is, what would happen if you change the BIOS setting,
>>> while an existing OS is installed ?
>>>
>>> Maybe someone else knows the answer to that. I'm not going to guess.
>>>
>>> Generally, you want to select the exactly right settings on page 50,
>>> before installing any OS, because the consequences of a mistake, mean
>>> lots of cleanup work later. For example, on Intel chipsets, moving
>>> between RAID for boot, and non-RAID for boot, in terms of drivers, is
>>> a PITA.
>>>
>>> For some background on Native versus Legacy, Intel has this document.
>>> It doesn't explain everything, but will give a few hints about how it
>>> works.
>>>
>>> (SATA Programmers Reference Manual - PDF page 11 is best)
>>>
>>> http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/manuals/252671.htm
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>> Thanks for your very comprehensive reply. However (although you were
>> not to know) I knew the bulk of that already. My set-up uses Extended
>> mode already and this was set-up prior to WinXP install.
>> I have read elsewhere that trying to change to AHCI mode may help (but
>> there again no-one has confirmed this) but changing it may well cause
>> WinXP to freeze. Guess what? I can confirm it does. Where do I go from
>> here?
>> Does this look like a WinXp issue or the BIOS of what? Thanks
>>
>>
> I would have thought Enhanced IDE would have worked for all six ports.
> If the port is physically working, the drive should be detected.
>
> AHCI and RAID require a driver, and there is the chicken versus egg
> problem, where if you switch to AHCI, the system won't boot. And if you
> leave the startup option alone, the new driver won't install unless it
> sees the enumeration it wants. So there isn't an easy solution for
> moving from vanilla mode, to AHCI or RAID. (AHCI supports hot plug,
> which is the first advantage of that driver, that comes to mind.)
>
> A repair install is one option. Press F6 and offer drivers. And then put
> back any missing Service Packs or Security patches via Windows Update.
>
> A second option I've seen described, is moving the C: drive to another
> controller. For example, installing a separate SATA card, install
> drivers for the SATA card, move the drive over to the SATA card and boot
> from it, change the Southbridge setting and then install the new
> Southbridge driver. And finally, move the drive connector back to the
> Southbridge port.
>
> http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/19...ching-storage-
controllers-reinstalling-windows
>
> I've heard that there exists a recipe, to change the driver without
> doing either of those options, but I haven't been able to find the
> recipe lately. Finding the right search terms to use, is always fun.
>
> Paul

Paul,
Just to let you know I eventually fixed this by simply uninstalling the 2
controllers and then rebooting XP.
Worked a treat.
Thanks for your help anyway.
Dave