minimal "System Partition"?

What is the minimal file set that would form what Microsoft calls
the "System" partition (i.e. the Primary partition marked "active"
which can boot load XP from another partition)? I know that
ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com are needed. But what else?
The swap file? Anything else outside the WINDOWS folder?
I'm considering using a single such partition to load multiple
instances of XP, each residing in a logical drive within a very
large Extended partition.

*TimDaniels*

Seldom required nowadays but SCSI controllers without a SCSI BIOS need
the SSCI driver (NTBOOTDD.SYS) on the system drive. The paging file can
be moved to another partition but for a debug file it is usually best to
keep a minimum pagefile of 126MB on the system drive.

John

Timothy Daniels wrote:
> What is the minimal file set that would form what Microsoft calls
> the "System" partition (i.e. the Primary partition marked "active"
> which can boot load XP from another partition)? I know that
> ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com are needed. But what else?
> The swap file? Anything else outside the WINDOWS folder?
> I'm considering using a single such partition to load multiple
> instances of XP, each residing in a logical drive within a very
> large Extended partition.
>
> *TimDaniels*
>
>

The size of the partition is not my concern. I'm trying to find out what
*files* are needed to make a system partition - that is, a Primary partition
that can be used to load Windows OSes from *other* partitions. I would
like to put these files into one very small Primary partition, and then use the
boot menu/loader in that Primary partition to load selected OSes from
multiple OSes stored in an Extended partition. In Microsoft terminology,
the small Primary partition would act as the "System Partition", and the
partitions in which the OSes reside would be the "Boot Partitions".

*TimDaniels*

"Juan Perez" answered:
> The minimum system requirement for windows XP is 1.5 fo free space. The
> partition size depends on how many windows components you install. If you make
> a minimun install and you delete the temporal files that you use, in a windows
> update, you may find that 5Gb could be enought. But keep in mind that it will
> get cramped, in you browse and work with it. Also If you try to install a
> Service Pack, it might have not enought space to do it.
>
> Un Saludo
> Juan Perez
>
>
> "Timothy Daniels" inquired:
>> What is the minimal file set that would form what Microsoft calls
>> the "System" partition (i.e. the Primary partition marked "active"
>> which can boot load XP from another partition)? I know that
>> ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com are needed. But what else?
>> The swap file? Anything else outside the WINDOWS folder?
>> I'm considering using a single such partition to load multiple
>> instances of XP, each residing in a logical drive within a very
>> large Extended partition.
>>
>> *TimDaniels*
>>
>
>

Regarding "...residing in a logical drive ..." - no-can-do.

A logical drive cannot be designated active/primary - as requirement for OSs


"Timothy Daniels" <NoSpam@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
news:Og87z%23M4IHA.1952@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> What is the minimal file set that would form what Microsoft calls
> the "System" partition (i.e. the Primary partition marked "active"
> which can boot load XP from another partition)? I know that
> ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com are needed. But what else?
> The swap file? Anything else outside the WINDOWS folder?
> I'm considering using a single such partition to load multiple
> instances of XP, each residing in a logical drive within a very
> large Extended partition.
>
> *TimDaniels*
>

No, not at all. The System Partition *must* be a primary active
partition but the Boot volume can be a logical drive inside an extended
partition.

John

AJR wrote:

> Regarding "...residing in a logical drive ..." - no-can-do.
>
> A logical drive cannot be designated active/primary - as requirement for OSs
>
>
> "Timothy Daniels" <NoSpam@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
> news:Og87z%23M4IHA.1952@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
>>What is the minimal file set that would form what Microsoft calls
>>the "System" partition (i.e. the Primary partition marked "active"
>>which can boot load XP from another partition)? I know that
>>ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com are needed. But what else?
>>The swap file? Anything else outside the WINDOWS folder?
>>I'm considering using a single such partition to load multiple
>>instances of XP, each residing in a logical drive within a very
>>large Extended partition.
>>
>>*TimDaniels*
>>
>
>
>

Timothy Daniels wrote:
> What is the minimal file set that would form what Microsoft calls
> the "System" partition (i.e. the Primary partition marked "active"
> which can boot load XP from another partition)? I know that
> ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com are needed. But what else?
> The swap file? Anything else outside the WINDOWS folder?
> I'm considering using a single such partition to load multiple
> instances of XP, each residing in a logical drive within a very
> large Extended partition.
>
> *TimDaniels*
>
>

boot partition (usually C:, 1MB is enough)

boot.ini
ntldr
ntdetect.com

system partition (varies from place to place):

Documents and Settings
Program Files
Program Files (x86)
WINDOWS

michael wrote:

> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>
>> What is the minimal file set that would form what Microsoft calls
>> the "System" partition (i.e. the Primary partition marked "active"
>> which can boot load XP from another partition)? I know that
>> ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com are needed. But what else?
>> The swap file? Anything else outside the WINDOWS folder?
>> I'm considering using a single such partition to load multiple
>> instances of XP, each residing in a logical drive within a very
>> large Extended partition.
>>
>> *TimDaniels*
>>
>
> boot partition (usually C:, 1MB is enough)
>
> boot.ini
> ntldr
> ntdetect.com
>
> system partition (varies from place to place):
>
> Documents and Settings
> Program Files
> Program Files (x86)
> WINDOWS

You got it upside down.

The Microsoft nomenclature defines the following:

*Boot Partition*
The boot partition contains the Windows operating system and its support
files. By default, the Windows operating system files are in the WINDOWS
folder, and the supporting files are in the WINDOWS\System32 folder.
The boot partition can be, but does not have to be, the same as the
system partition. There will be one, and only one, system partition, but
there will be one boot partition for each operating system in a
multi-boot system.

Note On dynamic disks, this is known as the boot volume.

*System Partition*
The system partition refers to the disk volume that contains the
hardware-specific files that are needed to start Windows, such as Ntldr,
Boot.ini, and Ntdetect.com. The system partition can be, but does not
have to be, the same volume as the boot partition.

Note On dynamic disks, this is known as the system volume.

John

"John John (MVP)" wrote:
> michael wrote:
>
>> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>>
>>> What is the minimal file set that would form what Microsoft calls
>>> the "System" partition (i.e. the Primary partition marked "active"
>>> which can boot load XP from another partition)? I know that
>>> ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com are needed. But what else?
>>> The swap file? Anything else outside the WINDOWS folder?
>>> I'm considering using a single such partition to load multiple
>>> instances of XP, each residing in a logical drive within a very
>>> large Extended partition.
>>>
>>> *TimDaniels*
>>>
>>
>> boot partition (usually C:, 1MB is enough)
>>
>> boot.ini
>> ntldr
>> ntdetect.com
>>
>> system partition (varies from place to place):
>>
>> Documents and Settings
>> Program Files
>> Program Files (x86)
>> WINDOWS
>
> You got it upside down.
>
> The Microsoft nomenclature defines the following:
>
> *Boot Partition*
> The boot partition contains the Windows operating system and its support
> files. By default, the Windows operating system files are in the WINDOWS
> folder, and the supporting files are in the WINDOWS\System32 folder.
> The boot partition can be, but does not have to be, the same as the
> system partition. There will be one, and only one, system partition, but
> there will be one boot partition for each operating system in a
> multi-boot system.
>
> Note On dynamic disks, this is known as the boot volume.
>
> *System Partition*
> The system partition refers to the disk volume that contains the
> hardware-specific files that are needed to start Windows, such as Ntldr,
> Boot.ini, and Ntdetect.com. The system partition can be, but does not
> have to be, the same volume as the boot partition.
>
> Note On dynamic disks, this is known as the system volume.
>
> John
>

Right! And can a System Partition consisting of only those 3 files
that were mentioned - ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com - succeed in
loading and running an OS residing in another partition?

And what does the Boot Partition need besides the WINDOWS,
Program Files, and Documents and Settings folders? Pagefile.sys?
Install.dat? IO.SYS? CONFIG.SYS? AUTOEXEC.BAT?

*TimDaniels*

Timothy Daniels wrote:

> "John John (MVP)" wrote:
>
>>michael wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Timothy Daniels wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>What is the minimal file set that would form what Microsoft calls
>>>>the "System" partition (i.e. the Primary partition marked "active"
>>>>which can boot load XP from another partition)? I know that
>>>>ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com are needed. But what else?
>>>>The swap file? Anything else outside the WINDOWS folder?
>>>>I'm considering using a single such partition to load multiple
>>>>instances of XP, each residing in a logical drive within a very
>>>>large Extended partition.
>>>>
>>>>*TimDaniels*
>>>>
>>>
>>>boot partition (usually C:, 1MB is enough)
>>>
>>>boot.ini
>>>ntldr
>>>ntdetect.com
>>>
>>>system partition (varies from place to place):
>>>
>>>Documents and Settings
>>>Program Files
>>>Program Files (x86)
>>>WINDOWS
>>
>>You got it upside down.
>>
>>The Microsoft nomenclature defines the following:
>>
>>*Boot Partition*
>>The boot partition contains the Windows operating system and its support
>>files. By default, the Windows operating system files are in the WINDOWS
>>folder, and the supporting files are in the WINDOWS\System32 folder.
>>The boot partition can be, but does not have to be, the same as the
>>system partition. There will be one, and only one, system partition, but
>>there will be one boot partition for each operating system in a
>>multi-boot system.
>>
>>Note On dynamic disks, this is known as the boot volume.
>>
>>*System Partition*
>>The system partition refers to the disk volume that contains the
>>hardware-specific files that are needed to start Windows, such as Ntldr,
>>Boot.ini, and Ntdetect.com. The system partition can be, but does not
>>have to be, the same volume as the boot partition.
>>
>>Note On dynamic disks, this is known as the system volume.
>>
>>John
>>
>
>
> Right! And can a System Partition consisting of only those 3 files
> that were mentioned - ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com - succeed in
> loading and running an OS residing in another partition?

Yes, if it's an NT type operating system, (excluding Vista and Server
2008, which do not use ntldr at all). For Windows 9x/MS-DOS type
operating systems ntldr needs a copy of the boot sector (bootsect.dos).


> And what does the Boot Partition need besides the WINDOWS,
> Program Files, and Documents and Settings folders? Pagefile.sys?
> Install.dat? IO.SYS? CONFIG.SYS? AUTOEXEC.BAT?

Speaking of Windows NT/2000/XP it only needs the Windows folder and
support files (the System32 folder). You can put those other files that
you mention anywhere else on the disk. I'm not sure what Install.dat is
but it isn't needed by NT type installations. On NT type installations
IO.SYS, CONFIG.SYS, and AUTOEXEC.BAT are not needed, they are there for
compatibility purposes with legacy applications only. The Autoexec.bat
file can be parsed for environment variables and the variables can be
included in the current user environment when Windows is started, this
behaviour can be changed via a registry edit.

John

"John John (MVP)" answered:
> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>> "John John (MVP)" wrote:
>>>michael wrote:
>>>>Timothy Daniels wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>What is the minimal file set that would form what Microsoft calls
>>>>>the "System" partition (i.e. the Primary partition marked "active"
>>>>>which can boot load XP from another partition)? I know that
>>>>>ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com are needed. But what else?
>>>>>The swap file? Anything else outside the WINDOWS folder?
>>>>>I'm considering using a single such partition to load multiple
>>>>>instances of XP, each residing in a logical drive within a very
>>>>>large Extended partition.
>>>>>
>>>>>*TimDaniels*
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>boot partition (usually C:, 1MB is enough)
>>>>
>>>>boot.ini
>>>>ntldr
>>>>ntdetect.com
>>>>
>>>>system partition (varies from place to place):
>>>>
>>>>Documents and Settings
>>>>Program Files
>>>>Program Files (x86)
>>>>WINDOWS
>>>
>>>You got it upside down.
>>>
>>>The Microsoft nomenclature defines the following:
>>>
>>>*Boot Partition*
>>>The boot partition contains the Windows operating system and its support
>>>files. By default, the Windows operating system files are in the WINDOWS
>>>folder, and the supporting files are in the WINDOWS\System32 folder.
>>>The boot partition can be, but does not have to be, the same as the
>>>system partition. There will be one, and only one, system partition, but
>>>there will be one boot partition for each operating system in a
>>>multi-boot system.
>>>
>>>Note On dynamic disks, this is known as the boot volume.
>>>
>>>*System Partition*
>>>The system partition refers to the disk volume that contains the
>>>hardware-specific files that are needed to start Windows, such as Ntldr,
>>>Boot.ini, and Ntdetect.com. The system partition can be, but does not
>>>have to be, the same volume as the boot partition.
>>>
>>>Note On dynamic disks, this is known as the system volume.
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>
>>
>> Right! And can a System Partition consisting of only those 3 files
>> that were mentioned - ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com - succeed in
>> loading and running an OS residing in another partition?
>
> Yes, if it's an NT type operating system, (excluding Vista and Server 2008,
> which do not use ntldr at all). For Windows 9x/MS-DOS type operating systems
> ntldr needs a copy of the boot sector (bootsect.dos).
>
>
>> And what does the Boot Partition need besides the WINDOWS,
>> Program Files, and Documents and Settings folders? Pagefile.sys?
>> Install.dat? IO.SYS? CONFIG.SYS? AUTOEXEC.BAT?
>
> Speaking of Windows NT/2000/XP it only needs the Windows folder
> and support files (the System32 folder). You can put those other files
> that you mention anywhere else on the disk. I'm not sure what
> Install.dat is but it isn't needed by NT type installations. On NT type
> installations IO.SYS, CONFIG.SYS, and AUTOEXEC.BAT are
> not needed, they are there for compatibility purposes with legacy
> applications only. The Autoexec.bat file can be parsed for
> environment variables and the variables can be included in the
> current user environment when Windows is started, this behaviour
> can be changed via a registry edit.
>
> John


Thanks for the reply. It sounds like this would work, then:

Create an NTFS Primary partition of about 400KB for the System Partition.
Install XP to another NTFS partition of, say 30GB for XP's Boot Partition.
Copy ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com from the Boot Partition to the
400KB System Partition.
Mark the 400KB System Partition "active" (assuming one hard drive.)

At startup, ntldr in the 400KB System Partition would get control,
and the entries in the boot.ini file would direct ntldr to load the XP in
the 30GB Boot Partition. Correct?

Corollary: I know that I can put a clone of XP into a logical drive
in an Extended partition and that I can boot it from another XP installation
that acts as the System Partition. The only "trick" is to use the correct
partition number in the "partition()" parameter of the boot.ini entry. But
does one have to go through the procedure of installing to a Primary
partition first and then cloning that Primary partition to a logical drive?
IOW, can one install XP directly to a logical drive provided that the
logical drive doesn't have to be a System Partition?

*TimDaniels*