Replacing hard drive

Bill:
In my last post I stated...

"However, and I'm supposing this may be the crux of your objective, you
could *not*, via the disk-cloning process, use the contents of any partition
to restore your drive's C: partition even if those contents contained the
contents of your drive's C: partition. Casper would not allow this "reverse"
cloning process to take place on the *same* physical disk."

Actually I hadn't considered using Casper's "Startup Disk" (bootable CD
containing the disk-cloning program to achieve this capability. With the
subject internal HDD connected, you could indeed do so with the Startup
Disk, i.e., boot to that CD and clone the partition on the HDD containing
the clone of your C: partition to the partition on that drive containing the
"original" C: partition, thus returning the system to its previous state.

Again, it seems to me the more straightforward and simpler method is to
install another internal HDD in your system and use that drive routinely as
a "test drive".
Anna

Anna wrote:
> Bill:
> In my last post I stated...
>
> "However, and I'm supposing this may be the crux of your objective, you
> could *not*, via the disk-cloning process, use the contents of any
> partition
> to restore your drive's C: partition even if those contents contained the
> contents of your drive's C: partition. Casper would not allow this
> "reverse"
> cloning process to take place on the *same* physical disk."
>
> Actually I hadn't considered using Casper's "Startup Disk" (bootable CD
> containing the disk-cloning program to achieve this capability. With the
> subject internal HDD connected, you could indeed do so with the Startup
> Disk, i.e., boot to that CD and clone the partition on the HDD containing
> the clone of your C: partition to the partition on that drive containing
> the
> "original" C: partition, thus returning the system to its previous state.
>
> Again, it seems to me the more straightforward and simpler method is to
> install another internal HDD in your system and use that drive routinely
> as
> a "test drive".
> Anna

Except with the problems with that approach that I already enumerated;
namely, for one, that you'd have to keep switching which drive to boot up
to, when running and not running these tests.

As is now, it's much simpler just backing up the images and restoring the
desired one, I think. But what I really wanted was to be able to store
those and do that on the main internal drive's extra space (I have quite a
bit of unused space there).

But you can't get full access to the files within (using TI's Secure Zone).

And if using Casper, by what you just said above, 1) you'd have lots of
extra partitions (each with its own drive letter!), and then 2) *have to*
boot up on the Startup Disk each time if you wanted to reclone one of them
back to the main internal drive.

Does that make sense? I think I've explained it better this time, and I
think I understand it better too (but am not positive - I might have missed
something here).

> Anna wrote:
>> Bill:
>> In my last post I stated...
>>
>> "However, and I'm supposing this may be the crux of your objective, you
>> could *not*, via the disk-cloning process, use the contents of any
>> partition to restore your drive's C: partition even if those contents
>> contained the
>> contents of your drive's C: partition. Casper would not allow this
>> "reverse" cloning process to take place on the *same* physical disk."
>>
>> Actually I hadn't considered using Casper's "Startup Disk" (bootable CD
>> containing the disk-cloning program to achieve this capability. With the
>> subject internal HDD connected, you could indeed do so with the Startup
>> Disk, i.e., boot to that CD and clone the partition on the HDD containing
>> the clone of your C: partition to the partition on that drive containing
>> the "original" C: partition, thus returning the system to its previous
>> state.
>>
>> Again, it seems to me the more straightforward and simpler method is to
>> install another internal HDD in your system and use that drive routinely
>> as a "test drive".
>> Anna


"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:%23Pg6U5G5IHA.1952@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Except with the problems with that approach that I already enumerated;
> namely, for one, that you'd have to keep switching which drive to boot up
> to, when running and not running these tests.
>
> As is now, it's much simpler just backing up the images and restoring the
> desired one, I think. But what I really wanted was to be able to store
> those and do that on the main internal drive's extra space (I have quite a
> bit of unused space there).
>
> But you can't get full access to the files within (using TI's Secure
> Zone).
>
> And if using Casper, by what you just said above, 1) you'd have lots of
> extra partitions (each with its own drive letter!), and then 2) *have to*
> boot up on the Startup Disk each time if you wanted to reclone one of them
> back to the main internal drive.
>
> Does that make sense? I think I've explained it better this time, and I
> think I understand it better too (but am not positive - I might have
> missed something here).


Bill:
Well the answer to 1) is that yes, you would have to create multi-partitions
on the HDD assuming you wanted each partition to hold generational clones of
your C: partition at various points in time. Why you would want to do this I
don't know, but that's would be involved here.

As to 2) as long as you're storing the clones of your C: partition on the
same physical HDD, yes, you would need to use the Casper Startup Disk (CD)
to access the program in order to perform the partition-cloning operation
we've been discussing.

It just seems to me that as a general proposition this is an awkward way of
doing things. I really can't understand why you would not simply use another
internal HDD as your secondary HDD and use that drive as the recipient of
the clone. Is it really that difficult or time-consuming that should you
want to boot to that HDD you couldn't simply access the BIOS during bootup
and temporarily change the BIOS boot priority order so that the boot will be
to that secondary HDD containing the clone? It's not as if you're doing this
on a constant routine basis is it?

In our case we generally set up our desktop PCs with removable HDDs so that
makes the boot process to either drive even easier.
Anna

Anna wrote:
>> Anna wrote:
>>> Bill:
>>> In my last post I stated...
>>>
>>> "However, and I'm supposing this may be the crux of your objective, you
>>> could *not*, via the disk-cloning process, use the contents of any
>>> partition to restore your drive's C: partition even if those contents
>>> contained the
>>> contents of your drive's C: partition. Casper would not allow this
>>> "reverse" cloning process to take place on the *same* physical disk."
>>>
>>> Actually I hadn't considered using Casper's "Startup Disk" (bootable CD
>>> containing the disk-cloning program to achieve this capability. With the
>>> subject internal HDD connected, you could indeed do so with the Startup
>>> Disk, i.e., boot to that CD and clone the partition on the HDD
>>> containing
>>> the clone of your C: partition to the partition on that drive containing
>>> the "original" C: partition, thus returning the system to its previous
>>> state.
>>>
>>> Again, it seems to me the more straightforward and simpler method is to
>>> install another internal HDD in your system and use that drive routinely
>>> as a "test drive".
>>> Anna
>
>
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:%23Pg6U5G5IHA.1952@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Except with the problems with that approach that I already enumerated;
>> namely, for one, that you'd have to keep switching which drive to boot up
>> to, when running and not running these tests.
>>
>> As is now, it's much simpler just backing up the images and restoring the
>> desired one, I think. But what I really wanted was to be able to store
>> those and do that on the main internal drive's extra space (I have quite
>> a
>> bit of unused space there).
>>
>> But you can't get full access to the files within (using TI's Secure
>> Zone).
>>
>> And if using Casper, by what you just said above, 1) you'd have lots of
>> extra partitions (each with its own drive letter!), and then 2) *have to*
>> boot up on the Startup Disk each time if you wanted to reclone one of
>> them
>> back to the main internal drive.
>>
>> Does that make sense? I think I've explained it better this time, and
>> I
>> think I understand it better too (but am not positive - I might have
>> missed something here).
>
>
> Bill:
> Well the answer to 1) is that yes, you would have to create
> multi-partitions
> on the HDD assuming you wanted each partition to hold generational clones
> of
> your C: partition at various points in time. Why you would want to do this
> I
> don't know, but that's would be involved here.

I don't want to do this. What I want is ONE extra partition (and only one
extra drive letter - permanently) on the internal drive to store all my
image backups of the C: partition, but yet is still somewhat accessible (or
at least viewable) in explorer.

As I understand it, you can get close to doing this by using Acronis's
Secure Zone, except that that partition is hidden, and unviewable in windows
explorer.

> As to 2) as long as you're storing the clones of your C: partition on the
> same physical HDD, yes, you would need to use the Casper Startup Disk (CD)
> to access the program in order to perform the partition-cloning operation
> we've been discussing.

Well, that's a bit of a pain, as you don't need to do that using Acronis
True Image and the Secure Zone (as I understand it). I mean, you don't
HAVE to use a startup disk.

And again, I'd be recopying the partition back to the internal drive IF I
found I didn't like what had happened to my system after I had installed
some program (but only in that case).

> It just seems to me that as a general proposition this is an awkward way
> of
> doing things. I really can't understand why you would not simply use
> another
> internal HDD as your secondary HDD and use that drive as the recipient of
> the clone.

Yes, this is possible of course. More on that below. But one thing - I
do NOT want to have to physically swap drives! The ONLY time I would want
that is if, and ONLY IF, the hard drive failed *at the hardware level*. (I
already have that covered though with my external backup drive).

> Is it really that difficult or time-consuming that should you
> want to boot to that HDD you couldn't simply access the BIOS during bootup
> and temporarily change the BIOS boot priority order so that the boot will
> be
> to that secondary HDD containing the clone?

Yes, I could do that if I had to (and I likely would have to, going the
route you mentioned)

> It's not as if you're doing this on a constant routine basis is it?

Not on a constant routine basis, no. Although I will add I have
occasionally been reimaging (restoring) back to the main drive on a weekly
basis after some tests.

> In our case we generally set up our desktop PCs with removable HDDs so
> that
> makes the boot process to either drive even easier.
> Anna

OK, I don't have that set up on my system either, but yes, that would be
another option. Like using one of those removable drive bays. But OTOH,
I love the simplicity and reliability of my current setup (ie., using NO
removable drive bays, with the attendant potential problems of such, etc).

But - I can still think about adding another HD. But then again, that
seems a bit like overkill, since I already have one disk that is so
underutilized as it is. Hmmm.

However, maybe a second internal HD could be used to store most of my image
partition copies of my main disk C: partition and without ANY potential
conflicts in booting up, so long as I kept the second drive off the boot
priority list in BIOS.
Right?

And then I could use it in the same way I'm now using my external HD (i.e,
if I don't like the results of installing some program I could use TI to
copy a backup partition on the second internal HD back to the main drive.
That's the way I like doing these tests (and restoring when needbe).

So IOW, normally the second HD (if I added one) would not be bootable, but
just used to store most of my image backups, and, if I wanted, I could
restore one of them back to the main drive. That seems simpler than
choosing which one to boot up to in BIOS, since the second drive would be
used SOLELY to hold image backups of the C: main drive partition, and there
would never be any potential conflicts that way, or any requirements for a
special boot disk, etc.