DVD / DVD+R /DVD-R / DVDRW. Are they all really distinct media formats?

"Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
news:uUjWq5K4IHA.4492@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> "Rahul" <nospam@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:Xns9AD3F2E27FF656650A1FC0D7811DDBC81@207.46.2 48.16...
>> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in
>> news:#YpoGn#3IHA.3500@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:
>>
>>
>>> The plus (+) and minus (-) are write formats. Either writer
>>> requirement doesn't really matter. In the end, both can read both
>>> formats if worth their salt.
>>>
>>> In the early days, there were DVD players for the TV that could only
>>> read the plus or minus versions. Now, that's not really an issue.
>>> Stamped DVDs is not an issue in any case. For both DVD players and
>>> DVD burners, media quality and reflectivity can determine the outcome
>>> of a readability and burner recognition.
>>
>> Thanks Dave! I just dug into the specs. for my Dell Inspirion Laptop: "8X
>> DVD+/-RW Drive for Inspiron 6400/E1505"
>>
>> So I guess it can write to both + and - types I assume. They both seem to
>> be equally cheap. Any reason to buy one over the other?
>>
>> --
>> Rahul
>
>
> Only if you're burning movies for a + or - specific DVD player for the TV,
> or, one of your share DVD buddies has a picky DVD player on their PC or
> TV.
>
> I transcended from the same story of a Technics DVD player that only reads
> + media.

That is the first time that I have heard of a player that reads the '+' but
not the '-' format.

Older players made by Toshiba* will not read DVD+RW disks but only because
they were deliberately rigged to detect the media and then behave as though
they couldn't read it. Toshiba had a commercial interest in burying the '+'
format. Some more modern players will not work with DVD+R9 media (dual
layer) because the book code was allocated after the players were made (but
they didn't actually require a different book code - a mistake that was not
made with DVD-R9)

*Including other manufacturers' players where the mechanism was made by
Toshiba.

M.I.5¾ wrote:
> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> news:uUjWq5K4IHA.4492@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> "Rahul" <nospam@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9AD3F2E27FF656650A1FC0D7811DDBC81@207.46.2 48.16...
>>> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in
>>> news:#YpoGn#3IHA.3500@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:
>>>
>>>
>>>> The plus (+) and minus (-) are write formats. Either writer
>>>> requirement doesn't really matter. In the end, both can read both
>>>> formats if worth their salt.
>>>>
>>>> In the early days, there were DVD players for the TV that could only
>>>> read the plus or minus versions. Now, that's not really an issue.
>>>> Stamped DVDs is not an issue in any case. For both DVD players and
>>>> DVD burners, media quality and reflectivity can determine the outcome
>>>> of a readability and burner recognition.
>>>
>>> Thanks Dave! I just dug into the specs. for my Dell Inspirion Laptop:
>>> "8X
>>> DVD+/-RW Drive for Inspiron 6400/E1505"
>>>
>>> So I guess it can write to both + and - types I assume. They both seem
>>> to
>>> be equally cheap. Any reason to buy one over the other?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rahul
>>
>>
>> Only if you're burning movies for a + or - specific DVD player for the
>> TV,
>> or, one of your share DVD buddies has a picky DVD player on their PC or
>> TV.
>>
>> I transcended from the same story of a Technics DVD player that only
>> reads
>> + media.
>
> That is the first time that I have heard of a player that reads the '+'
> but
> not the '-' format.

Same here. BTW, some older players will not read the DVD+R discs but will
read the DVD-R discs fine. (NB: I'm not talking about the RW discs here,
which you address below)

> Older players made by Toshiba* will not read DVD+RW disks but only because
> they were deliberately rigged to detect the media and then behave as
> though
> they couldn't read it. Toshiba had a commercial interest in burying the
> '+'
> format. Some more modern players will not work with DVD+R9 media (dual
> layer) because the book code was allocated after the players were made
> (but
> they didn't actually require a different book code - a mistake that was
> not
> made with DVD-R9)
>
> *Including other manufacturers' players where the mechanism was made by
> Toshiba.

M.I.5¾ wrote:
> "Rahul" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:Xns9AD2D4A1AAB546650A1FC0D7811DDBC81@207.46.2 48.16...
>> I'm always confused by DVD terminology when buying media to write on.
>> There's DVD / DVD+R / DVD-R / DVDRW and I'm not even sure which more!
>>
>> Are these all really distinct technologies and formats? Or are some
>> subsets
>> / supersets of others? Or maybe its only backward compatibility issues?
>> What's the best way to figure out what format my Laptop supports? Do they
>> have varied sizes? Does it matter whether I'm writing data or movies
>> etc.?
>> I faintly remember there being lead-in / lead-out issues....
>>
>> I've never faced the problem that I bought some commercial movie etc. on
>> a
>> DVD and my Dell Laptop ( Inspirion E1505)'s inbuilt DVD reader /writer
>> couldn't read it. Its a dual boot so are there any Linux-vs-Win issues
>> too?
>>
>> Are these distinctions only relevant when writing disks at home as
>> opposed
>> to commercially stamped disks? Or maybe when reading on hardware other
>> than
>> "computers" (etc. DVD players etc.)
>>
>>
>
> First: the easy bit. The 'R' media is write once. The 'RW' media can be
> erased allowing its re-use.
>
> A little more complex is the difference between the '-' discs and '+'
> discs.
> As far as you the user is concerned, except for some uses there is little
> to
> chose. Some older video DVD players will refuse to recognise the DVD+RW
> discs (but will recognise DVD+R). This was the result of a deliberate
> attempt by Toshiba to discourage the '+' format. Once rumbled they had to
> abandon it.
>
> For DVD-R and DVD+R, there is no practical difference other than the
> latter
> is written faster by some drives.

AND that the DVD-R discs are more compatible with some older players.
(BTDT)

> For DVD-RW and DVD+RW there is a subtle difference in that the former is
> eraseable at the block level only. The latter is eraseable at the word
> level. This means that individual words can be erased and overwritten.
> It
> also means that if used for video, more video can be added to the end of
> existing video and the two played through seemlessly. This cannot be done
> with the '-' format.
>
> If you are planning on using packet incemental format (Nero's InCD or
> Roxio's Drag-to-disc), then DVD+RW will be much more reliable than DVD-RW.

Does any truly sane person use the packet writing stuff? Too many
potential problems there. :-) InCD and DirectCD, thanks, but no
thanks.

> Every modern DVD writer supports all 4 types of disc. Some also support a
> format known as DVD-RAM which works much like any normal disc drive. This
> latter format is the only writeable DVD format that is supported by
> Windows
> XP out of the box (but beware, DVD-RAM formatted by XP isn't fully
> compatible with Vista).

M.I.5¾ wrote:
> "Rahul" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:Xns9AD2D4A1AAB546650A1FC0D7811DDBC81@207.46.2 48.16...
>> I'm always confused by DVD terminology when buying media to write on.
>> There's DVD / DVD+R / DVD-R / DVDRW and I'm not even sure which more!
>>
>> Are these all really distinct technologies and formats? Or are some
>> subsets
>> / supersets of others? Or maybe its only backward compatibility issues?
>> What's the best way to figure out what format my Laptop supports? Do they
>> have varied sizes? Does it matter whether I'm writing data or movies
>> etc.?
>> I faintly remember there being lead-in / lead-out issues....
>>
>> I've never faced the problem that I bought some commercial movie etc. on
>> a
>> DVD and my Dell Laptop ( Inspirion E1505)'s inbuilt DVD reader /writer
>> couldn't read it. Its a dual boot so are there any Linux-vs-Win issues
>> too?
>>
>> Are these distinctions only relevant when writing disks at home as
>> opposed
>> to commercially stamped disks? Or maybe when reading on hardware other
>> than
>> "computers" (etc. DVD players etc.)
>>
>>
>
> First: the easy bit. The 'R' media is write once. The 'RW' media can be
> erased allowing its re-use.
>
> A little more complex is the difference between the '-' discs and '+'
> discs.
> As far as you the user is concerned, except for some uses there is little
> to
> chose. Some older video DVD players will refuse to recognise the DVD+RW
> discs (but will recognise DVD+R). This was the result of a deliberate
> attempt by Toshiba to discourage the '+' format. Once rumbled they had to
> abandon it.
>
> For DVD-R and DVD+R, there is no practical difference other than the
> latter
> is written faster by some drives.
>
> For DVD-RW and DVD+RW there is a subtle difference in that the former is
> eraseable at the block level only. The latter is eraseable at the word
> level. This means that individual words can be erased and overwritten.
> It
> also means that if used for video, more video can be added to the end of
> existing video and the two played through seemlessly. This cannot be done
> with the '-' format.
>
> If you are planning on using packet incemental format (Nero's InCD or
> Roxio's Drag-to-disc), then DVD+RW will be much more reliable than DVD-RW.

Just out of curiosity, why is that? (I don't use the packet writing
format, but am curious, and would have expected the older standard to be
more compatible in this case, too - seems like (from a hardware viewpoint)
it might be "simpler" to just erase the whole block, rather than the
individual word - albeit less desireable for the user).

> Every modern DVD writer supports all 4 types of disc. Some also support a
> format known as DVD-RAM which works much like any normal disc drive. This
> latter format is the only writeable DVD format that is supported by
> Windows
> XP out of the box (but beware, DVD-RAM formatted by XP isn't fully
> compatible with Vista).

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:OIXbXJS4IHA.4908@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> M.I.5¾ wrote:
>> "Rahul" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9AD2D4A1AAB546650A1FC0D7811DDBC81@207.46.2 48.16...
>>> I'm always confused by DVD terminology when buying media to write on.
>>> There's DVD / DVD+R / DVD-R / DVDRW and I'm not even sure which more!
>>>
>>> Are these all really distinct technologies and formats? Or are some
>>> subsets
>>> / supersets of others? Or maybe its only backward compatibility issues?
>>> What's the best way to figure out what format my Laptop supports? Do
>>> they
>>> have varied sizes? Does it matter whether I'm writing data or movies
>>> etc.?
>>> I faintly remember there being lead-in / lead-out issues....
>>>
>>> I've never faced the problem that I bought some commercial movie etc. on
>>> a
>>> DVD and my Dell Laptop ( Inspirion E1505)'s inbuilt DVD reader /writer
>>> couldn't read it. Its a dual boot so are there any Linux-vs-Win issues
>>> too?
>>>
>>> Are these distinctions only relevant when writing disks at home as
>>> opposed
>>> to commercially stamped disks? Or maybe when reading on hardware other
>>> than
>>> "computers" (etc. DVD players etc.)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> First: the easy bit. The 'R' media is write once. The 'RW' media can be
>> erased allowing its re-use.
>>
>> A little more complex is the difference between the '-' discs and '+'
>> discs.
>> As far as you the user is concerned, except for some uses there is little
>> to
>> chose. Some older video DVD players will refuse to recognise the DVD+RW
>> discs (but will recognise DVD+R). This was the result of a deliberate
>> attempt by Toshiba to discourage the '+' format. Once rumbled they had
>> to
>> abandon it.
>>
>> For DVD-R and DVD+R, there is no practical difference other than the
>> latter
>> is written faster by some drives.
>
> AND that the DVD-R discs are more compatible with some older players.
> (BTDT)
>

I've already covered this point. There should be no difference. I am not
aware of any player that will not play DVD+R discs (even first generation
players play them flawlessly) unles the player's laser has deteriorated -
but then they won't play lots of formats. It was the DVD+RW that gave all
the problems but only because players were deliberately rigged to refuse to
play them.

>> For DVD-RW and DVD+RW there is a subtle difference in that the former is
>> eraseable at the block level only. The latter is eraseable at the word
>> level. This means that individual words can be erased and overwritten.
>> It
>> also means that if used for video, more video can be added to the end of
>> existing video and the two played through seemlessly. This cannot be
>> done
>> with the '-' format.
>>
>> If you are planning on using packet incemental format (Nero's InCD or
>> Roxio's Drag-to-disc), then DVD+RW will be much more reliable than
>> DVD-RW.
>
> Does any truly sane person use the packet writing stuff? Too many
> potential problems there. :-) InCD and DirectCD, thanks, but no
> thanks.
>

Whilst I agree with you, many people do. DVD+RW discs give few problems
with packet writing unlike DVD-RW and CD-RW. But if your drive supports
DVD-RAM use that instead.

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:%23S8eANS4IHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> M.I.5¾ wrote:
>> "Rahul" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9AD2D4A1AAB546650A1FC0D7811DDBC81@207.46.2 48.16...
>>> I'm always confused by DVD terminology when buying media to write on.
>>> There's DVD / DVD+R / DVD-R / DVDRW and I'm not even sure which more!
>>>
>>> Are these all really distinct technologies and formats? Or are some
>>> subsets
>>> / supersets of others? Or maybe its only backward compatibility issues?
>>> What's the best way to figure out what format my Laptop supports? Do
>>> they
>>> have varied sizes? Does it matter whether I'm writing data or movies
>>> etc.?
>>> I faintly remember there being lead-in / lead-out issues....
>>>
>>> I've never faced the problem that I bought some commercial movie etc. on
>>> a
>>> DVD and my Dell Laptop ( Inspirion E1505)'s inbuilt DVD reader /writer
>>> couldn't read it. Its a dual boot so are there any Linux-vs-Win issues
>>> too?
>>>
>>> Are these distinctions only relevant when writing disks at home as
>>> opposed
>>> to commercially stamped disks? Or maybe when reading on hardware other
>>> than
>>> "computers" (etc. DVD players etc.)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> First: the easy bit. The 'R' media is write once. The 'RW' media can be
>> erased allowing its re-use.
>>
>> A little more complex is the difference between the '-' discs and '+'
>> discs.
>> As far as you the user is concerned, except for some uses there is little
>> to
>> chose. Some older video DVD players will refuse to recognise the DVD+RW
>> discs (but will recognise DVD+R). This was the result of a deliberate
>> attempt by Toshiba to discourage the '+' format. Once rumbled they had
>> to
>> abandon it.
>>
>> For DVD-R and DVD+R, there is no practical difference other than the
>> latter
>> is written faster by some drives.
>>
>> For DVD-RW and DVD+RW there is a subtle difference in that the former is
>> eraseable at the block level only. The latter is eraseable at the word
>> level. This means that individual words can be erased and overwritten.
>> It
>> also means that if used for video, more video can be added to the end of
>> existing video and the two played through seemlessly. This cannot be
>> done
>> with the '-' format.
>>
>> If you are planning on using packet incemental format (Nero's InCD or
>> Roxio's Drag-to-disc), then DVD+RW will be much more reliable than
>> DVD-RW.
>
> Just out of curiosity, why is that? (I don't use the packet writing
> format, but am curious, and would have expected the older standard to be
> more compatible in this case, too - seems like (from a hardware viewpoint)
> it might be "simpler" to just erase the whole block, rather than the
> individual word - albeit less desireable for the user).
>

It is because the read/write head when writing a DVD-RW in the drive, can
only locate positions on the disc to within a block of data. As a result
the drive has to leave a 2 block gap between different data block to avoid
over writing previous data. It is bit hit and miss and consequently it
misses on occasions and overwrites something. If that happens to be part of
the TOC or FAT, then the disc is corrupt and unreadable.

DVD+RW is a bit more technologically advanced such that the read/write head
can locate to a word of data and accurately overwrite it. Thus the
potential for overwriting something important, whilst not entirely removed,
is vastly less likely.

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:uT2$tHS4IHA.1196@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> M.I.5¾ wrote:
>> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
>> news:uUjWq5K4IHA.4492@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> "Rahul" <nospam@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9AD3F2E27FF656650A1FC0D7811DDBC81@207.46.2 48.16...
>>>> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in
>>>> news:#YpoGn#3IHA.3500@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The plus (+) and minus (-) are write formats. Either writer
>>>>> requirement doesn't really matter. In the end, both can read both
>>>>> formats if worth their salt.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the early days, there were DVD players for the TV that could only
>>>>> read the plus or minus versions. Now, that's not really an issue.
>>>>> Stamped DVDs is not an issue in any case. For both DVD players and
>>>>> DVD burners, media quality and reflectivity can determine the outcome
>>>>> of a readability and burner recognition.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Dave! I just dug into the specs. for my Dell Inspirion Laptop:
>>>> "8X
>>>> DVD+/-RW Drive for Inspiron 6400/E1505"
>>>>
>>>> So I guess it can write to both + and - types I assume. They both seem
>>>> to
>>>> be equally cheap. Any reason to buy one over the other?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Rahul
>>>
>>>
>>> Only if you're burning movies for a + or - specific DVD player for the
>>> TV,
>>> or, one of your share DVD buddies has a picky DVD player on their PC or
>>> TV.
>>>
>>> I transcended from the same story of a Technics DVD player that only
>>> reads
>>> + media.
>>
>> That is the first time that I have heard of a player that reads the '+'
>> but
>> not the '-' format.
>
> Same here. BTW, some older players will not read the DVD+R discs but
> will read the DVD-R discs fine. (NB: I'm not talking about the RW discs
> here, which you address below)
>

Then there is something wrong here. The difference relates only to the way
the discs are written. Once a DVD+R is written, there are no different from
a DVD-R (or indeed a premastered DVD). The ID bytes are even the same (in
all 3 cases).

M.I.5¾ wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:uT2$tHS4IHA.1196@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> M.I.5¾ wrote:
>>> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
>>> news:uUjWq5K4IHA.4492@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>> "Rahul" <nospam@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:Xns9AD3F2E27FF656650A1FC0D7811DDBC81@207.46.2 48.16...
>>>>> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in
>>>>> news:#YpoGn#3IHA.3500@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The plus (+) and minus (-) are write formats. Either writer
>>>>>> requirement doesn't really matter. In the end, both can read both
>>>>>> formats if worth their salt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the early days, there were DVD players for the TV that could only
>>>>>> read the plus or minus versions. Now, that's not really an issue.
>>>>>> Stamped DVDs is not an issue in any case. For both DVD players and
>>>>>> DVD burners, media quality and reflectivity can determine the outcome
>>>>>> of a readability and burner recognition.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Dave! I just dug into the specs. for my Dell Inspirion Laptop:
>>>>> "8X DVD+/-RW Drive for Inspiron 6400/E1505"
>>>>>
>>>>> So I guess it can write to both + and - types I assume. They both seem
>>>>> to be equally cheap. Any reason to buy one over the other?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Rahul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Only if you're burning movies for a + or - specific DVD player for the
>>>> TV,
>>>> or, one of your share DVD buddies has a picky DVD player on their PC or
>>>> TV.
>>>>
>>>> I transcended from the same story of a Technics DVD player that only
>>>> reads + media.
>>>
>>> That is the first time that I have heard of a player that reads the '+'
>>> but not the '-' format.
>>
>> Same here. BTW, some older players will not read the DVD+R discs but
>> will read the DVD-R discs fine. (NB: I'm not talking about the RW
>> discs
>> here, which you address below)
>>
>
> Then there is something wrong here. The difference relates only to the
> way
> the discs are written. Once a DVD+R is written, there are no different
> from
> a DVD-R (or indeed a premastered DVD). The ID bytes are even the same (in
> all 3 cases).

Evidently there is SOME difference. We know the DVD+R discs are
manufactured at least in some way different from the DVD-R discs, but
whether the problem is with reading the disc themselves, or the way it is
written to the disc, I can't say. But one thing I can say: I have on at
least a couple of occasions had discs I made using DVD+Rs that could not be
read by my older DVD players, whereas when I made them using DVD-R discs,
they worked perfectly. And yes, the DVD writer was able to write both
types of discs.

There was also some article covering this very point that I read some time
ago on the net, so it's not like it was just my case alone. The
recommendation then was to use the DVD-Rs for better backward compatibility,
and from what little I have seen, they were correct.

M.I.5¾ wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:OIXbXJS4IHA.4908@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> M.I.5¾ wrote:
>>> "Rahul" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9AD2D4A1AAB546650A1FC0D7811DDBC81@207.46.2 48.16...
>>>> I'm always confused by DVD terminology when buying media to write on.
>>>> There's DVD / DVD+R / DVD-R / DVDRW and I'm not even sure which more!
>>>>
>>>> Are these all really distinct technologies and formats? Or are some
>>>> subsets
>>>> / supersets of others? Or maybe its only backward compatibility issues?
>>>> What's the best way to figure out what format my Laptop supports? Do
>>>> they have varied sizes? Does it matter whether I'm writing data or
>>>> movies
>>>> etc.? I faintly remember there being lead-in / lead-out issues....
>>>>
>>>> I've never faced the problem that I bought some commercial movie etc.
>>>> on
>>>> a DVD and my Dell Laptop ( Inspirion E1505)'s inbuilt DVD reader
>>>> /writer
>>>> couldn't read it. Its a dual boot so are there any Linux-vs-Win issues
>>>> too?
>>>>
>>>> Are these distinctions only relevant when writing disks at home as
>>>> opposed
>>>> to commercially stamped disks? Or maybe when reading on hardware other
>>>> than "computers" (etc. DVD players etc.)
>>>
>>> First: the easy bit. The 'R' media is write once. The 'RW' media can
>>> be
>>> erased allowing its re-use.
>>>
>>> A little more complex is the difference between the '-' discs and '+'
>>> discs.
>>> As far as you the user is concerned, except for some uses there is
>>> little to
>>> chose. Some older video DVD players will refuse to recognise the DVD+RW
>>> discs (but will recognise DVD+R). This was the result of a deliberate
>>> attempt by Toshiba to discourage the '+' format. Once rumbled they had
>>> to abandon it.
>>>
>>> For DVD-R and DVD+R, there is no practical difference other than the
>>> latter is written faster by some drives.
>>
>> AND that the DVD-R discs are more compatible with some older players.
>> (BTDT)
>
> I've already covered this point. There should be no difference. I am
> not
> aware of any player that will not play DVD+R discs (even first generation
> players play them flawlessly) unless the player's laser has deteriorated -
> but then they won't play lots of formats.

Well, that's not the only reason. Come over and see for yourself. :-)

> It was the DVD+RW that gave all
> the problems but only because players were deliberately rigged to refuse
> to
> play them.

Well, as I said in my other post, evidently there is some difference. To
recap:

We know the DVD+R discs are manufactured at least in some way different from
the DVD-R discs, but whether the problem is with reading the disc
themselves, or the way it is written to the disc, I can't say. But one
thing I can say: I have on at least a couple of occasions had discs I made
using DVD+Rs that could not be read by my older DVD players, whereas when I
made them using DVD-R discs, they worked perfectly. And yes, the DVD
writer was able to write both types of discs.

There was also some article covering this very point that I read some time
ago on the net, so it's not like it was just my case alone. The
recommendation then was to use the DVD-Rs for better backward compatibility,
and from what little I have seen, they were correct.


>>> For DVD-RW and DVD+RW there is a subtle difference in that the former is
>>> eraseable at the block level only. The latter is eraseable at the word
>>> level. This means that individual words can be erased and overwritten.
>>> It also means that if used for video, more video can be added to the end
>>> of
>>> existing video and the two played through seemlessly. This cannot be
>>> done with the '-' format.
>>>
>>> If you are planning on using packet incemental format (Nero's InCD or
>>> Roxio's Drag-to-disc), then DVD+RW will be much more reliable than
>>> DVD-RW.
>>
>> Does any truly sane person use the packet writing stuff? Too many
>> potential problems there. :-) InCD and DirectCD, thanks, but no
>> thanks.
>>
>
> Whilst I agree with you, many people do. DVD+RW discs give few problems
> with packet writing unlike DVD-RW and CD-RW. But if your drive supports
> DVD-RAM use that instead.

I'd rather just stick with the tried and true DVD-R discs, which work on
about anything.

And another side benefit is that there are NO problematic conflicts between
(or even due to any) packet writing stuff. I have BOTH Nero *and* EZCD
installed on my computer, but sanely WITHOUT any InCD and DirectCD crap
being installed.

As in, "thanks, but no thanks".

M.I.5¾ wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:%23S8eANS4IHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> M.I.5¾ wrote:
>>> "Rahul" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9AD2D4A1AAB546650A1FC0D7811DDBC81@207.46.2 48.16...
>>>> I'm always confused by DVD terminology when buying media to write on.
>>>> There's DVD / DVD+R / DVD-R / DVDRW and I'm not even sure which more!
>>>>
>>>> Are these all really distinct technologies and formats? Or are some
>>>> subsets
>>>> / supersets of others? Or maybe its only backward compatibility issues?
>>>> What's the best way to figure out what format my Laptop supports? Do
>>>> they
>>>> have varied sizes? Does it matter whether I'm writing data or movies
>>>> etc.?
>>>> I faintly remember there being lead-in / lead-out issues....
>>>>
>>>> I've never faced the problem that I bought some commercial movie etc.
>>>> on
>>>> a
>>>> DVD and my Dell Laptop ( Inspirion E1505)'s inbuilt DVD reader /writer
>>>> couldn't read it. Its a dual boot so are there any Linux-vs-Win issues
>>>> too?
>>>>
>>>> Are these distinctions only relevant when writing disks at home as
>>>> opposed
>>>> to commercially stamped disks? Or maybe when reading on hardware other
>>>> than
>>>> "computers" (etc. DVD players etc.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> First: the easy bit. The 'R' media is write once. The 'RW' media can
>>> be
>>> erased allowing its re-use.
>>>
>>> A little more complex is the difference between the '-' discs and '+'
>>> discs.
>>> As far as you the user is concerned, except for some uses there is
>>> little
>>> to
>>> chose. Some older video DVD players will refuse to recognise the DVD+RW
>>> discs (but will recognise DVD+R). This was the result of a deliberate
>>> attempt by Toshiba to discourage the '+' format. Once rumbled they had
>>> to
>>> abandon it.
>>>
>>> For DVD-R and DVD+R, there is no practical difference other than the
>>> latter
>>> is written faster by some drives.
>>>
>>> For DVD-RW and DVD+RW there is a subtle difference in that the former is
>>> eraseable at the block level only. The latter is eraseable at the word
>>> level. This means that individual words can be erased and overwritten.
>>> It
>>> also means that if used for video, more video can be added to the end of
>>> existing video and the two played through seemlessly. This cannot be
>>> done
>>> with the '-' format.
>>>
>>> If you are planning on using packet incemental format (Nero's InCD or
>>> Roxio's Drag-to-disc), then DVD+RW will be much more reliable than
>>> DVD-RW.
>>
>> Just out of curiosity, why is that? (I don't use the packet writing
>> format, but am curious, and would have expected the older standard to be
>> more compatible in this case, too - seems like (from a hardware
>> viewpoint)
>> it might be "simpler" to just erase the whole block, rather than the
>> individual word - albeit less desireable for the user).
>>
>
> It is because the read/write head when writing a DVD-RW in the drive, can
> only locate positions on the disc to within a block of data. As a result
> the drive has to leave a 2 block gap between different data block to avoid
> over writing previous data. It is bit hit and miss and consequently it
> misses on occasions and overwrites something. If that happens to be part
> of
> the TOC or FAT, then the disc is corrupt and unreadable.
>
> DVD+RW is a bit more technologically advanced such that the read/write
> head
> can locate to a word of data and accurately overwrite it. Thus the
> potential for overwriting something important, whilst not entirely
> removed,
> is vastly less likely.

Interesting. So if this is really true, then I expect the DVD+RW has
replaced the DVD-RWs in the stores by now, but I never use them, so I don't
know.