Very puzzling sequence of events on motherboard replacement

Last week I purchased a replacement motherboard (Intel D845GEBV2—new
in original factory box factory sealed static bag from an eBay
reseller) for a spare machine in a guest room upstairs. The machine
was used mainly for Internet connection and I wasn't interested in
spending a lot of money to upgrade it. Prior to replacement the
onboard ethernet card had stopped working and I could no longer get
the machine to boot up with the floppy disk first in boot order in
BIOS. What prompted me to replace the board, however, was that it
stopped booting up XP (except from the Ultimate Boot CD for XP) and I
noticed one of the capacitors was starting to ooze.

After installing the new motherboard, however, I found that the
machine would not boot at all—in fact it would stop working before it
even got to the POST beeps. I tried a different power supply but that
didn't make any difference. I then tried pulling the memory and that
got me through to three POST beeps (memory fault) on the new board. I
tried one memory stick at a time but no luck on that either. I
removed the three cards including the video board from the machine but
that too proved to be a dead end. I also tried unplugging the hard
drives to see if I could boot from a floppy—no luck on that either or
on disconnecting the two optical drives!

My whole purpose was to avoid spending a lot of money on this old
machine so I'm not keen on buying either memory or a CPU simply to
rule them out as possible causes for this behavior. So I'm hoping
someone will unlock the secret of what is going on here for me. I've
built many machines and changed many motherboards but never run into
anything quite as obstinate or mysterious as this.

One thing that strikes me as quite peculiar is that the machine will
not start up at all—not even for a few seconds—from the regular start
switch. It will only start from the master on-off switch on the power
supply.

Thanks in advance for any help!

no_spam_paquette@uwo.ca wrote:
> Last week I purchased a replacement motherboard (Intel D845GEBV2—new
> in original factory box factory sealed static bag from an eBay
> reseller) for a spare machine in a guest room upstairs. The machine
> was used mainly for Internet connection and I wasn't interested in
> spending a lot of money to upgrade it. Prior to replacement the
> onboard ethernet card had stopped working and I could no longer get
> the machine to boot up with the floppy disk first in boot order in
> BIOS. What prompted me to replace the board, however, was that it
> stopped booting up XP (except from the Ultimate Boot CD for XP) and I
> noticed one of the capacitors was starting to ooze.
>
> After installing the new motherboard, however, I found that the
> machine would not boot at all—in fact it would stop working before it
> even got to the POST beeps. I tried a different power supply but that
> didn't make any difference. I then tried pulling the memory and that
> got me through to three POST beeps (memory fault) on the new board. I
> tried one memory stick at a time but no luck on that either. I
> removed the three cards including the video board from the machine but
> that too proved to be a dead end. I also tried unplugging the hard
> drives to see if I could boot from a floppy—no luck on that either or
> on disconnecting the two optical drives!
>
> My whole purpose was to avoid spending a lot of money on this old
> machine so I'm not keen on buying either memory or a CPU simply to
> rule them out as possible causes for this behavior. So I'm hoping
> someone will unlock the secret of what is going on here for me. I've
> built many machines and changed many motherboards but never run into
> anything quite as obstinate or mysterious as this.
>
> One thing that strikes me as quite peculiar is that the machine will
> not start up at all—not even for a few seconds—from the regular start
> switch. It will only start from the master on-off switch on the power
> supply.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help!

To start with, if a product has been "in the bag" since 2002, the CMOS
battery could be flat. That is the first thing I'd check, before even
assembling the thing. (I say that, because I'm averaging a 3 year life
on CR2032 batteries, on stored computers here. They don't last long
at all. They last longer when the computer remains powered and +5VSB
is available, but that is a waste of electricity.)

The 845GE provides onboard video, so you don't need a video card to
test it. One less thing to worry about.

If the motherboard will beep the speaker, when all RAM is removed,
that is also a good sign. As far as I know, on the modern motherboards
I know about, the beep is generated under program control, meaning
the firmware plays a part in the repetitive beep pattern. It also
means a significant part of the chipset is testing good, in order
to emit the beeps. So I wouldn't be shopping for a new processor
just yet.

A machine which starts as soon as the rear switch is turned on, indicates
the Southbridge is under stress. I've seen this happen, when an IDE
cable was half inserted (not all pins making contact). The Southbridge
has multiple voltage islands inside, and upsetting the relationship
between them, can cause PS_ON# to come on.

So to start, change the battery, and see what happens. If
you have a multimeter, 3.0V or more would be a decent voltage for
a good battery. Below 2.4V on the battery isn't good. The battery
path normally has a diode in it, so there isn't a good reason
for a flat battery to hold the computer hostage, but you
never know (I've read reports that it can).

Also, as part of the stress theory, disconnect both IDE
cables, and see if that makes any difference to the
symptoms.

Paul

Thanks very much for the thoughtful reply, Paul!

On Jul 15, 9:47 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> no_spam_paque...@uwo.ca wrote:
> > Last week I purchased a replacement motherboard (Intel D845GEBV2—new
> > in original factory box factory sealed static bag from an eBay
> > reseller) for a spare machine in a guest room upstairs. The machine
> > was used mainly for Internet connection and I wasn't interested in
> > spending a lot of money to upgrade it. Prior to replacement the
> > onboard ethernet card had stopped working and I could no longer get
> > the machine to boot up with the floppy disk first in boot order in
> > BIOS. What prompted me to replace the board, however, was that it
> > stopped booting up XP (except from the Ultimate Boot CD for XP) and I
> > noticed one of the capacitors was starting to ooze.
>
> > After installing the new motherboard, however, I found that the
> > machine would not boot at all—in fact it would stop working before it
> > even got to the POST beeps. I tried a different power supply but that
> > didn't make any difference. I then tried pulling the memory and that
> > got me through to three POST beeps (memory fault) on the new board. I
> > tried one memory stick at a time but no luck on that either. I
> > removed the three cards including the video board from the machine but
> > that too proved to be a dead end. I also tried unplugging the hard
> > drives to see if I could boot from a floppy—no luck on that either or
> > on disconnecting the two optical drives!
>
> > My whole purpose was to avoid spending a lot of money on this old
> > machine so I'm not keen on buying either memory or a CPU simply to
> > rule them out as possible causes for this behavior. So I'm hoping
> > someone will unlock the secret of what is going on here for me. I've
> > built many machines and changed many motherboards but never run into
> > anything quite as obstinate or mysterious as this.
>
> > One thing that strikes me as quite peculiar is that the machine will
> > not start up at all—not even for a few seconds—from the regular start
> > switch. It will only start from the master on-off switch on the power
> > supply.
>
> > Thanks in advance for any help!
>
> To start with, if a product has been "in the bag" since 2002, the CMOS
> battery could be flat. That is the first thing I'd check, before even
> assembling the thing. (I say that, because I'm averaging a 3 year life
> on CR2032 batteries, on stored computers here. They don't last long
> at all. They last longer when the computer remains powered and +5VSB
> is available, but that is a waste of electricity.)

Thanks but apparently the battery is still hanging in there!

>
> The 845GE provides onboard video, so you don't need a video card to
> test it. One less thing to worry about.

Right—I removed it for testing—and finally discovered (I'm a bit
embarrassed to admit ita bit embarrassed to) a jammed reset button!

>
> If the motherboard will beep the speaker, when all RAM is removed,
> that is also a good sign. As far as I know, on the modern motherboards
> I know about, the beep is generated under program control, meaning
> the firmware plays a part in the repetitive beep pattern. It also
> means a significant part of the chipset is testing good, in order
> to emit the beeps. So I wouldn't be shopping for a new processor
> just yet.
>
> A machine which starts as soon as the rear switch is turned on, indicates
> the Southbridge is under stress. I've seen this happen, when an IDE
> cable was half inserted (not all pins making contact). The Southbridge
> has multiple voltage islands inside, and upsetting the relationship
> between them, can cause PS_ON# to come on.
>
> So to start, change the battery, and see what happens. If
> you have a multimeter, 3.0V or more would be a decent voltage for
> a good battery. Below 2.4V on the battery isn't good. The battery
> path normally has a diode in it, so there isn't a good reason
> for a flat battery to hold the computer hostage, but you
> never know (I've read reports that it can).
>
> Also, as part of the stress theory, disconnect both IDE
> cables, and see if that makes any difference to the
> symptoms.
>
> Paul

I'm still not out of the woods yet with this machine, however! It
will now boot just to the point immediately before XP wants username
and password authentication and then it hangs but I guess that will
have to be a problem for another day. At least the mystery of the
elusive reset-button jam is solved!

Again, many thanks for the thoughtful diagnostic ideas, Paul!

paquette@uwo.ca wrote:
> Thanks very much for the thoughtful reply, Paul!
>
> On Jul 15, 9:47 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
>> no_spam_paque...@uwo.ca wrote:
>>> Last week I purchased a replacement motherboard (Intel D845GEBV2—new
>>> in original factory box factory sealed static bag from an eBay
>>> reseller) for a spare machine in a guest room upstairs. The machine
>>> was used mainly for Internet connection and I wasn't interested in
>>> spending a lot of money to upgrade it. Prior to replacement the
>>> onboard ethernet card had stopped working and I could no longer get
>>> the machine to boot up with the floppy disk first in boot order in
>>> BIOS. What prompted me to replace the board, however, was that it
>>> stopped booting up XP (except from the Ultimate Boot CD for XP) and
>>> I noticed one of the capacitors was starting to ooze.
>>
>>> After installing the new motherboard, however, I found that the
>>> machine would not boot at all—in fact it would stop working before
>>> it even got to the POST beeps. I tried a different power supply
>>> but that didn't make any difference. I then tried pulling the
>>> memory and that got me through to three POST beeps (memory fault)
>>> on the new board. I tried one memory stick at a time but no luck
>>> on that either. I removed the three cards including the video
>>> board from the machine but that too proved to be a dead end. I
>>> also tried unplugging the hard drives to see if I could boot from a
>>> floppy—no luck on that either or on disconnecting the two optical
>>> drives!
>>
>>> My whole purpose was to avoid spending a lot of money on this old
>>> machine so I'm not keen on buying either memory or a CPU simply to
>>> rule them out as possible causes for this behavior. So I'm hoping
>>> someone will unlock the secret of what is going on here for me.
>>> I've built many machines and changed many motherboards but never
>>> run into anything quite as obstinate or mysterious as this.
>>
>>> One thing that strikes me as quite peculiar is that the machine will
>>> not start up at all—not even for a few seconds—from the regular
>>> start switch. It will only start from the master on-off switch on
>>> the power supply.
>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any help!
>>
>> To start with, if a product has been "in the bag" since 2002, the
>> CMOS battery could be flat. That is the first thing I'd check,
>> before even assembling the thing. (I say that, because I'm averaging
>> a 3 year life on CR2032 batteries, on stored computers here. They
>> don't last long
>> at all. They last longer when the computer remains powered and +5VSB
>> is available, but that is a waste of electricity.)
>
> Thanks but apparently the battery is still hanging in there!
>
>>
>> The 845GE provides onboard video, so you don't need a video card to
>> test it. One less thing to worry about.
>
> Right—I removed it for testing—and finally discovered (I'm a bit
> embarrassed to admit ita bit embarrassed to) a jammed reset button!
>
>>
>> If the motherboard will beep the speaker, when all RAM is removed,
>> that is also a good sign. As far as I know, on the modern
>> motherboards
>> I know about, the beep is generated under program control, meaning
>> the firmware plays a part in the repetitive beep pattern. It also
>> means a significant part of the chipset is testing good, in order
>> to emit the beeps. So I wouldn't be shopping for a new processor
>> just yet.
>>
>> A machine which starts as soon as the rear switch is turned on,
>> indicates the Southbridge is under stress. I've seen this happen,
>> when an IDE cable was half inserted (not all pins making contact).
>> The Southbridge has multiple voltage islands inside, and upsetting
>> the relationship between them, can cause PS_ON# to come on.
>>
>> So to start, change the battery, and see what happens. If
>> you have a multimeter, 3.0V or more would be a decent voltage for
>> a good battery. Below 2.4V on the battery isn't good. The battery
>> path normally has a diode in it, so there isn't a good reason
>> for a flat battery to hold the computer hostage, but you
>> never know (I've read reports that it can).
>>
>> Also, as part of the stress theory, disconnect both IDE
>> cables, and see if that makes any difference to the
>> symptoms.
>>
>> Paul
>
> I'm still not out of the woods yet with this machine, however! It
> will now boot just to the point immediately before XP wants username
> and password authentication and then it hangs but I guess that will
> have to be a problem for another day. At least the mystery of the
> elusive reset-button jam is solved!
>
> Again, many thanks for the thoughtful diagnostic ideas, Paul!

Unless the MB you bought is identical to the old one you will need to do a
repair install and load the various MD, video, sound card and so forth
drivers from the CD that came with the MB.

How to perform an in-place upgrade (reinstallation) of Windows
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;315341

How to Perform a Windows XP Repair Install
http://michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm

Changing a Motherboard or Moving a Hard Drive with XP Installed
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/moving_xp.html

On Jul 16, 12:53 am, "GreenieLeBrun" <GreenieLeB...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> paque...@uwo.ca wrote:
> > Thanks very much for the thoughtful reply, Paul!
>
> > On Jul 15, 9:47 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> >> no_spam_paque...@uwo.ca wrote:
> >>> Last week I purchased a replacement motherboard (Intel D845GEBV2—new
> >>> in original factory box factory sealed static bag from an eBay
> >>> reseller) for a spare machine in a guest room upstairs. The machine
> >>> was used mainly for Internet connection and I wasn't interested in
> >>> spending a lot of money to upgrade it. Prior to replacement the
> >>> onboard ethernet card had stopped working and I could no longer get
> >>> the machine to boot up with the floppy disk first in boot order in
> >>> BIOS. What prompted me to replace the board, however, was that it
> >>> stopped booting up XP (except from the Ultimate Boot CD for XP) and
> >>> I noticed one of the capacitors was starting to ooze.
>
> >>> After installing the new motherboard, however, I found that the
> >>> machine would not boot at all—in fact it would stop working before
> >>> it even got to the POST beeps. I tried a different power supply
> >>> but that didn't make any difference. I then tried pulling the
> >>> memory and that got me through to three POST beeps (memory fault)
> >>> on the new board. I tried one memory stick at a time but no luck
> >>> on that either. I removed the three cards including the video
> >>> board from the machine but that too proved to be a dead end. I
> >>> also tried unplugging the hard drives to see if I could boot from a
> >>> floppy—no luck on that either or on disconnecting the two optical
> >>> drives!
>
> >>> My whole purpose was to avoid spending a lot of money on this old
> >>> machine so I'm not keen on buying either memory or a CPU simply to
> >>> rule them out as possible causes for this behavior. So I'm hoping
> >>> someone will unlock the secret of what is going on here for me.
> >>> I've built many machines and changed many motherboards but never
> >>> run into anything quite as obstinate or mysterious as this.
>
> >>> One thing that strikes me as quite peculiar is that the machine will
> >>> not start up at all—not even for a few seconds—from the regular
> >>> start switch. It will only start from the master on-off switch on
> >>> the power supply.
>
> >>> Thanks in advance for any help!
>
> >> To start with, if a product has been "in the bag" since 2002, the
> >> CMOS battery could be flat. That is the first thing I'd check,
> >> before even assembling the thing. (I say that, because I'm averaging
> >> a 3 year life on CR2032 batteries, on stored computers here. They
> >> don't last long
> >> at all. They last longer when the computer remains powered and +5VSB
> >> is available, but that is a waste of electricity.)
>
> > Thanks but apparently the battery is still hanging in there!
>
> >> The 845GE provides onboard video, so you don't need a video card to
> >> test it. One less thing to worry about.
>
> > Right—I removed it for testing—and finally discovered (I'm a bit
> > embarrassed to admit ita bit embarrassed to) a jammed reset button!
>
> >> If the motherboard will beep the speaker, when all RAM is removed,
> >> that is also a good sign. As far as I know, on the modern
> >> motherboards
> >> I know about, the beep is generated under program control, meaning
> >> the firmware plays a part in the repetitive beep pattern. It also
> >> means a significant part of the chipset is testing good, in order
> >> to emit the beeps. So I wouldn't be shopping for a new processor
> >> just yet.
>
> >> A machine which starts as soon as the rear switch is turned on,
> >> indicates the Southbridge is under stress. I've seen this happen,
> >> when an IDE cable was half inserted (not all pins making contact).
> >> The Southbridge has multiple voltage islands inside, and upsetting
> >> the relationship between them, can cause PS_ON# to come on.
>
> >> So to start, change the battery, and see what happens. If
> >> you have a multimeter, 3.0V or more would be a decent voltage for
> >> a good battery. Below 2.4V on the battery isn't good. The battery
> >> path normally has a diode in it, so there isn't a good reason
> >> for a flat battery to hold the computer hostage, but you
> >> never know (I've read reports that it can).
>
> >> Also, as part of the stress theory, disconnect both IDE
> >> cables, and see if that makes any difference to the
> >> symptoms.
>
> >> Paul
>
> > I'm still not out of the woods yet with this machine, however! It
> > will now boot just to the point immediately before XP wants username
> > and password authentication and then it hangs but I guess that will
> > have to be a problem for another day. At least the mystery of the
> > elusive reset-button jam is solved!
>
> > Again, many thanks for the thoughtful diagnostic ideas, Paul!
>
> Unless the MB you bought is identical to the old one you will need to do a
> repair install and load the various MD, video, sound card and so forth
> drivers from the CD that came with the MB.
>
> How to perform an in-place upgrade (reinstallation) of Windowshttp://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;315341
>
> How to Perform a Windows XP Repair Installhttp://michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm
>
> Changing a Motherboard or Moving a Hard Drive with XP Installedhttp://www..michaelstevenstech.com/moving_xp.html

Exactly same model and version as old MB!

I'm still not out of the woods yet with this machine, however! It
will now boot just to the point immediately before XP wants username
and password authentication and then it hangs but I guess that will
have to be a problem for another day. At least the mystery of the
elusive reset-button jam is solved!

Again, many thanks for the thoughtful diagnostic ideas, Paul!

___________________________

I spent a fair amount of time with that mobo model, and it was pretty
reliable for basic stuff.

IMHO, you may need to do the repair install anyway... If the old mobo failed
in a bad way, it may have corrupted the Win install.

And just for curiosity...does anyone use/need a reset switch anymore? Most
cases don't have it, do they?

-John O

JohnO wrote:
> I'm still not out of the woods yet with this machine, however! It
> will now boot just to the point immediately before XP wants username
> and password authentication and then it hangs but I guess that will
> have to be a problem for another day. At least the mystery of the
> elusive reset-button jam is solved!
>
> Again, many thanks for the thoughtful diagnostic ideas, Paul!
>
> ___________________________
>
> I spent a fair amount of time with that mobo model, and it was pretty
> reliable for basic stuff.
>
> IMHO, you may need to do the repair install anyway... If the old mobo failed
> in a bad way, it may have corrupted the Win install.
>
> And just for curiosity...does anyone use/need a reset switch anymore? Most
> cases don't have it, do they?
>
> -John O
>

I use it to interrupt the boot sequence, like if I didn't press <del>
fast enough, to get into the BIOS. All my computer cases here have
a reset switch. I find it handy.

Paul