no DVI with VAIO in docking station

LS,

Brief description: monitor does not connect with docking station over DVI
while VGA works fine.
Configuration: Sony VAIO model VGN-BX297XP, with docking-station VGP-PRBX1
and Philips LCD monitor 200XW7.
Above configuration worked fine until some months ago the monitor broke down
and was replaced by a new one.
Next, the monitor did not connect at all (neither DVI nor VGA) and the
laptop was sent to a Sony repair station where motherboard
(graphics card), optical disk drive and harddisk were replaced.
After repair of the laptop, the docking station still did not give DVI
output; and finally the docking station was replaced by a brand
new one with no result.
So in effect, a new monitor and a (virtually) new laptop in a new docking
station have a major problem: no DVI output.
The drivers for the monitor were reinstalled; Windows indicates hardware
works fine, but it only does with VGA (both laptop direct and docking
station).
Updating the drivers for the graphics card (Radeon Mobile X700) results in a
Windows dialogue-box indicating that the latest revisions are installed.
Regarding troubleshooting I am really out of options; please advise.


Kind regards,

René Meijn
Hoeven
The Netherlands

R. Meijn wrote:
> LS,
>
> Brief description: monitor does not connect with docking station over DVI
> while VGA works fine.
> Configuration: Sony VAIO model VGN-BX297XP, with docking-station VGP-PRBX1
> and Philips LCD monitor 200XW7.
> Above configuration worked fine until some months ago the monitor broke down
> and was replaced by a new one.
> Next, the monitor did not connect at all (neither DVI nor VGA) and the
> laptop was sent to a Sony repair station where motherboard
> (graphics card), optical disk drive and harddisk were replaced.
> After repair of the laptop, the docking station still did not give DVI
> output; and finally the docking station was replaced by a brand
> new one with no result.
> So in effect, a new monitor and a (virtually) new laptop in a new docking
> station have a major problem: no DVI output.
> The drivers for the monitor were reinstalled; Windows indicates hardware
> works fine, but it only does with VGA (both laptop direct and docking
> station).
> Updating the drivers for the graphics card (Radeon Mobile X700) results in a
> Windows dialogue-box indicating that the latest revisions are installed.
> Regarding troubleshooting I am really out of options; please advise.
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> René Meijn
> Hoeven
> The Netherlands
>

The pinout for a DVI connector is here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface

The functions on a DVI connector, might be described as follows

1) Jack sensing. The computer may have the ability to detect that a monitor
has been plugged in. In the case of the VGA connector on older computers,
the graphics card can sense whether a 75 ohm load has been placed on the
RGB signals. In the case of DVI digital, the GPU might be looking for a
100 ohm load across the signal pairs.

2) The computer queries the capabilities of the monitor, via the DDC/CI serial
interface. This is a low speed interface. The monitor specifies things,
like the maximum resolution supported. Not all display devices have a
working DDC/CI interface (such as projection devices for home theatre).
But DDC should be used on computer display devices, both VGA and DVI-D.

3) The actual signals carrying the image. For analog video, the signals would
be RGBHV (red, green, blue, horizontal_synchronization, vertical_synchronization).
For digital video, there are three differential pairs carrying RGB, and an
additional differential pair carrying a reference clock signal.

Now, the question would be, what things can you test ?

1) To test jack sensing, you'd need to see the Display control panel respond,
when the DVI connector is plugged in. (You're looking for any response
that suggests the laptop has noticed that a monitor has been plugged in.)

2) There is a program for checking what is coming across the DDC serial interface.

3) I don't know of an easy way for an end user to check the actual signal
content for the RGB and so on. So verifying the signals is much more
difficult. Even in the lab, it would take an expensive instrument to
verify the DVI digital signals, due to their high speed (1650 megabits/sec
maximum). In my old lab, we might use a 40GHz sampling scope for that,
and examine the eye diagram on a signal pair.

The simplest test you can do, is (2), and the program to use is here.
Plug in the DVI monitor, and then use this program. See if the information
for the DVI monitor is displayed in the window. If the information is
displayed, it means the connector is making contact and the low speed
serial interface is working.

http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm

The video driver may not turn on the video output, unless the jack
sensing function is working. For desktop video cards, when a TV
connected to the composite video output doesn't work, the control
panel offers a "force" function, to turn on the composite output.
But as far as I know, that function is not made available for VGA
or DVI outputs.

Paul

Paul,

I am very grateful for your response.
Following your suggestions I downloaded Monitor Asset Manager 1.26 and
received a query running the tool.
So obviously the low speed serial interface is working.
The report generated did not specify any reference to DVI; any suggestion
why DVI-interface and protocol would not be recognized?


Kind regards,

René Meijn
Hoeven
The Netherlands



"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:g67nbm$iur$1@aioe.org...
> R. Meijn wrote:
>> LS,
>>
>> Brief description: monitor does not connect with docking station over DVI
>> while VGA works fine.
>> Configuration: Sony VAIO model VGN-BX297XP, with docking-station
>> VGP-PRBX1 and Philips LCD monitor 200XW7.
>> Above configuration worked fine until some months ago the monitor broke
>> down and was replaced by a new one.
>> Next, the monitor did not connect at all (neither DVI nor VGA) and the
>> laptop was sent to a Sony repair station where motherboard
>> (graphics card), optical disk drive and harddisk were replaced.
>> After repair of the laptop, the docking station still did not give DVI
>> output; and finally the docking station was replaced by a brand
>> new one with no result.
>> So in effect, a new monitor and a (virtually) new laptop in a new docking
>> station have a major problem: no DVI output.
>> The drivers for the monitor were reinstalled; Windows indicates hardware
>> works fine, but it only does with VGA (both laptop direct and docking
>> station).
>> Updating the drivers for the graphics card (Radeon Mobile X700) results
>> in a Windows dialogue-box indicating that the latest revisions are
>> installed.
>> Regarding troubleshooting I am really out of options; please advise.
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> René Meijn
>> Hoeven
>> The Netherlands
>>
>
> The pinout for a DVI connector is here.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface
>
> The functions on a DVI connector, might be described as follows
>
> 1) Jack sensing. The computer may have the ability to detect that a
> monitor
> has been plugged in. In the case of the VGA connector on older
> computers,
> the graphics card can sense whether a 75 ohm load has been placed on
> the
> RGB signals. In the case of DVI digital, the GPU might be looking for a
> 100 ohm load across the signal pairs.
>
> 2) The computer queries the capabilities of the monitor, via the DDC/CI
> serial
> interface. This is a low speed interface. The monitor specifies things,
> like the maximum resolution supported. Not all display devices have a
> working DDC/CI interface (such as projection devices for home theatre).
> But DDC should be used on computer display devices, both VGA and DVI-D.
>
> 3) The actual signals carrying the image. For analog video, the signals
> would
> be RGBHV (red, green, blue, horizontal_synchronization,
> vertical_synchronization).
> For digital video, there are three differential pairs carrying RGB, and
> an
> additional differential pair carrying a reference clock signal.
>
> Now, the question would be, what things can you test ?
>
> 1) To test jack sensing, you'd need to see the Display control panel
> respond,
> when the DVI connector is plugged in. (You're looking for any response
> that suggests the laptop has noticed that a monitor has been plugged
> in.)
>
> 2) There is a program for checking what is coming across the DDC serial
> interface.
>
> 3) I don't know of an easy way for an end user to check the actual signal
> content for the RGB and so on. So verifying the signals is much more
> difficult. Even in the lab, it would take an expensive instrument to
> verify the DVI digital signals, due to their high speed (1650
> megabits/sec
> maximum). In my old lab, we might use a 40GHz sampling scope for that,
> and examine the eye diagram on a signal pair.
>
> The simplest test you can do, is (2), and the program to use is here.
> Plug in the DVI monitor, and then use this program. See if the information
> for the DVI monitor is displayed in the window. If the information is
> displayed, it means the connector is making contact and the low speed
> serial interface is working.
>
> http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm
>
> The video driver may not turn on the video output, unless the jack
> sensing function is working. For desktop video cards, when a TV
> connected to the composite video output doesn't work, the control
> panel offers a "force" function, to turn on the composite output.
> But as far as I know, that function is not made available for VGA
> or DVI outputs.
>
> Paul

R. Meijn wrote:
> Paul,
>
> I am very grateful for your response.
> Following your suggestions I downloaded Monitor Asset Manager 1.26 and
> received a query running the tool.
> So obviously the low speed serial interface is working.
> The report generated did not specify any reference to DVI; any suggestion
> why DVI-interface and protocol would not be recognized?
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> René Meijn
> Hoeven
> The Netherlands
>

During plugin, the sequence could be

1) Jack detection notices a resistive load on the color signals.

2) Video card driver accesses DDC/CI to get maximum resolution and
other information.

3) Video card can enable the output drive to the monitor.

We know (2) works now, because of your test result.

For (1), open the ATI Display Control Panel (double click the red ATI icon on
the Taskbar). Select "Display Manager" from the left hand list of options.
There is a button "Detect Displays", and mine claims that it can
"force detection". You can try that and see if the representation of
the displays changes or not, in the area just above the "Detect Displays"
button.

The only way to verify (3), is by indirect means. Try the current external monitor
on another computer, and verify it still works. And also borrow a known
working monitor, and try plugging that to your docking station as a test.

Are you using an extremely long DVI monitor cable ? Is the cable of a
good quality ? It could also be a problem with only part of the
cable - the DDC wires might be working, but perhaps the clock wires
for the digital part of the interface, have a break in the wire.

HTH,
Paul

Paul,

using the ATi Catalyst Control Center I can indeed use the option to
detect displays, but with no result.
Another thing I tried is uninstalling the monitor drivers; the monitor then
becomes a "Plug-and-Play" type rather than being identified as a Philips
200XW7.
Nevertheless, in both cases ATi CCC won't detect it.
With the Philips (Altiris) drivers installed this software independently
reports it cannot detect the monitor.
Note that the current external monitor works fine when connecting it to
either laptop or dockingstation with a VGA cable.
The cable that came with the monitor was already changed for a brand new
one; no difference (still I will check pin continuity on the new cable).

I checked all settings and all hardware reports it is working properly.

So the issue remains why the monitor is not detected; is there a possibility
that the interconnection between dockingstation and laptop is faulty?
Specifically I am referring to the laptop connection at the underside.
Note it has recently been repaired by Sony (motherboard with integrated
graphics card interchanged) and I have asked them to confirm that the
checked DVI-output at the dockingstation connector of the laptop; no answer
yet


Kind regards,

René Meijn
Hoeven
The Netherlands



"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:g68pq5$f7i$1@aioe.org...
> R. Meijn wrote:
>> Paul,
>>
>> I am very grateful for your response.
>> Following your suggestions I downloaded Monitor Asset Manager 1.26 and
>> received a query running the tool.
>> So obviously the low speed serial interface is working.
>> The report generated did not specify any reference to DVI; any suggestion
>> why DVI-interface and protocol would not be recognized?
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> René Meijn
>> Hoeven
>> The Netherlands
>>
>
> During plugin, the sequence could be
>
> 1) Jack detection notices a resistive load on the color signals.
>
> 2) Video card driver accesses DDC/CI to get maximum resolution and
> other information.
>
> 3) Video card can enable the output drive to the monitor.
>
> We know (2) works now, because of your test result.
>
> For (1), open the ATI Display Control Panel (double click the red ATI icon
> on
> the Taskbar). Select "Display Manager" from the left hand list of options.
> There is a button "Detect Displays", and mine claims that it can
> "force detection". You can try that and see if the representation of
> the displays changes or not, in the area just above the "Detect Displays"
> button.
>
> The only way to verify (3), is by indirect means. Try the current external
> monitor
> on another computer, and verify it still works. And also borrow a known
> working monitor, and try plugging that to your docking station as a test.
>
> Are you using an extremely long DVI monitor cable ? Is the cable of a
> good quality ? It could also be a problem with only part of the
> cable - the DDC wires might be working, but perhaps the clock wires
> for the digital part of the interface, have a break in the wire.
>
> HTH,
> Paul

R. Meijn wrote:
> Paul,
>
> using the ATi Catalyst Control Center I can indeed use the option to
> detect displays, but with no result.
> Another thing I tried is uninstalling the monitor drivers; the monitor then
> becomes a "Plug-and-Play" type rather than being identified as a Philips
> 200XW7.
> Nevertheless, in both cases ATi CCC won't detect it.
> With the Philips (Altiris) drivers installed this software independently
> reports it cannot detect the monitor.
> Note that the current external monitor works fine when connecting it to
> either laptop or dockingstation with a VGA cable.
> The cable that came with the monitor was already changed for a brand new
> one; no difference (still I will check pin continuity on the new cable).
>
> I checked all settings and all hardware reports it is working properly.
>
> So the issue remains why the monitor is not detected; is there a possibility
> that the interconnection between dockingstation and laptop is faulty?
> Specifically I am referring to the laptop connection at the underside.
> Note it has recently been repaired by Sony (motherboard with integrated
> graphics card interchanged) and I have asked them to confirm that the
> checked DVI-output at the dockingstation connector of the laptop; no answer
> yet
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> René Meijn
> Hoeven
> The Netherlands
>

When you tried the "moninfo" program from entechtaiwan.com, did
you get a response from your Philips monitor ? (The Altiris software
is probably using the same interface, so you may have effectively
tested this already.)

http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/2/2...00_dfu_eng.pdf

If I wanted a simplistic test, I might try making a "dummy load connector".
That would involve the purchase of four 100 ohm 1/4watt resistors, and connecting
them to R,G,B, and clock pair on a bare DVI connector. By doing that, and
connecting that dummy plug to the computer, I could test the detection
function on the computer end. (I have a plug like that, which I made for
VGA 15 pin. That one connects a 75 ohm resistor to the R, G, and B signals,
for a total of three resistors. I found that was suitable to fool my video card
into thinking a VGA monitor was connected.)

I have a suspicion a cable is not hooked up internally somewhere, or
the repair job was not finished properly.

On the above document I just linked above, go to PDF page 34. The pinout
on the DVI connector is shown. There is a 5V power pin on pin 14. If you
were really careful, you could check to see whether +5V was present there.
And perhaps that might suggest whether the thing was wired up properly or
not.

I have a spare DVI connector on my video card (for the second monitor),
and checking pin 14 as shown in the manual, did show the presence of +5V.
That +5V is used to power the EEPROM connected to the DDC interface.
The reason for the computer sending power to the monitor, is so that
even if the monitor is turned off, the DDC interface is still powered
and should work. What I cannot promise though, is that all DVI connectors
have power on that pin. For example, on a laptop, they may choose to
switch off the flow of current to that pin. So I cannot make a blanket
statement that pin 14 will always be at 5V potential.

But that would be a simple external test, that the port was wired (if you
saw 5V on it, chances are other parts of the interface are wired also).
I was able to stick the tip of one of my multimeter probes, into the
connector far enough, to touch a contact and read the voltage. For a
ground connection, I connected the black lead of the multimeter, to
an adjacent I/O screw on the computer.

Paul

Paul,

right again or even better, right after all.

First of all, the response from "moninfo" was indeed from the Philips
monitor connected (as listed in the report).

Today I managed to get hold of a simple monitor with DVI which I hooked up
to the laptop on DVI: it worked instantly.
So your conclusion that the Philips monitor itself is not functioning
properly was right.
Nevertheless the failure it exhibits is quite complex: it responds correct
to no cable and DVI-cable, it works fine on VGA and it partially responds to
the laptop when interrrogating is for DVI.

So Philips did a very bad repair job and Sony repaired the laptop fine.
Philips will deliver another monitor under warranty (I hope they now have
their quality control sorted out).
Sony accepted responsibility about the repair job which did not work out;
they asked me to send screenshots in order to effectively co-troubleshoot,
however it was not their fault after all.

Finally, thanks again for all support and suggestion in this tricky issue.


Kind regards,

René Meijn
Hoeven
The Netherlands



"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:g69dr4$nc2$1@aioe.org...
> R. Meijn wrote:
>> Paul,
>>
>> using the ATi Catalyst Control Center I can indeed use the option to
>> detect displays, but with no result.
>> Another thing I tried is uninstalling the monitor drivers; the monitor
>> then becomes a "Plug-and-Play" type rather than being identified as a
>> Philips 200XW7.
>> Nevertheless, in both cases ATi CCC won't detect it.
>> With the Philips (Altiris) drivers installed this software independently
>> reports it cannot detect the monitor.
>> Note that the current external monitor works fine when connecting it to
>> either laptop or dockingstation with a VGA cable.
>> The cable that came with the monitor was already changed for a brand new
>> one; no difference (still I will check pin continuity on the new cable).
>>
>> I checked all settings and all hardware reports it is working properly.
>>
>> So the issue remains why the monitor is not detected; is there a
>> possibility that the interconnection between dockingstation and laptop is
>> faulty?
>> Specifically I am referring to the laptop connection at the underside.
>> Note it has recently been repaired by Sony (motherboard with integrated
>> graphics card interchanged) and I have asked them to confirm that the
>> checked DVI-output at the dockingstation connector of the laptop; no
>> answer yet
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> René Meijn
>> Hoeven
>> The Netherlands
>>
>
> When you tried the "moninfo" program from entechtaiwan.com, did
> you get a response from your Philips monitor ? (The Altiris software
> is probably using the same interface, so you may have effectively
> tested this already.)
>
> http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/2/2...00_dfu_eng.pdf
>
> If I wanted a simplistic test, I might try making a "dummy load
> connector".
> That would involve the purchase of four 100 ohm 1/4watt resistors, and
> connecting
> them to R,G,B, and clock pair on a bare DVI connector. By doing that, and
> connecting that dummy plug to the computer, I could test the detection
> function on the computer end. (I have a plug like that, which I made for
> VGA 15 pin. That one connects a 75 ohm resistor to the R, G, and B
> signals,
> for a total of three resistors. I found that was suitable to fool my video
> card
> into thinking a VGA monitor was connected.)
>
> I have a suspicion a cable is not hooked up internally somewhere, or
> the repair job was not finished properly.
>
> On the above document I just linked above, go to PDF page 34. The pinout
> on the DVI connector is shown. There is a 5V power pin on pin 14. If you
> were really careful, you could check to see whether +5V was present there.
> And perhaps that might suggest whether the thing was wired up properly or
> not.
>
> I have a spare DVI connector on my video card (for the second monitor),
> and checking pin 14 as shown in the manual, did show the presence of +5V.
> That +5V is used to power the EEPROM connected to the DDC interface.
> The reason for the computer sending power to the monitor, is so that
> even if the monitor is turned off, the DDC interface is still powered
> and should work. What I cannot promise though, is that all DVI connectors
> have power on that pin. For example, on a laptop, they may choose to
> switch off the flow of current to that pin. So I cannot make a blanket
> statement that pin 14 will always be at 5V potential.
>
> But that would be a simple external test, that the port was wired (if you
> saw 5V on it, chances are other parts of the interface are wired also).
> I was able to stick the tip of one of my multimeter probes, into the
> connector far enough, to touch a contact and read the voltage. For a
> ground connection, I connected the black lead of the multimeter, to
> an adjacent I/O screw on the computer.
>
> Paul
>

On 2008-07-24, R. Meijn hit the keyboard and wrote:
> Paul,
>
> right again or even better, right after all.
>
> First of all, the response from "moninfo" was indeed from the Philips
> monitor connected (as listed in the report).
>
> Today I managed to get hold of a simple monitor with DVI which I hooked up
> to the laptop on DVI: it worked instantly.
> So your conclusion that the Philips monitor itself is not functioning
> properly was right.
> Nevertheless the failure it exhibits is quite complex: it responds correct
> to no cable and DVI-cable, it works fine on VGA and it partially responds to
> the laptop when interrrogating is for DVI.
>
> So Philips did a very bad repair job and Sony repaired the laptop fine.

I know how you feel, I had to bring a flat-panel LCD Monitor
4 times to the shop, only when I provided pictures (taken
with a camera) would they really hunt down the problem, and
replace parts. I know the resident moron of this NG could
consider this OT, but sometimes these things can happen,

Dragomir Kollaric
--
This signature is licensed under the GPL and may be
freely distributed as long as a copy of the GPL is included... :-)