USB ports degraded..

Some time ago I damaged physically one of the USB 2 ports on the front of my
PC, and subsequently (probably as a result) find that all the other ports,
four at the back and the second one on the front panel, though still working
are now functioning in a very degraded mode and are slower in transferring
data by a factor of 10 or 20.

There's no error or warning displayed in Device Manager against the Enhanced
Host Controller, or anywhere else.

Is it likely that I've broken some hardware on the motherboard, or is there
any diagonstic that I can perform to clarify whether reinstalling some
firmware or driver might fix this?

At worst, I could presumably install a USB/Firewire expansion card to
replace the failed ports.. A couple of other questions then arise: If I do
this, will I need to delete the exisiting drivers and controllers, and so on,
to avoid conflicts, and hence abandon the existing USB ports; and if so, am I
likely to run into difficulties at any time, including reverting, if I can't
access an XP installation disk?

Many thanks for any thoughts..

[Windows XP Home, SP3]

Did you disconnect the cable from the motherboard to
the damaged front panel USB connector?

JS

"Walter M" <WalterM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:24CC7FF0-7137-4B81-80B6-C8958023374A@microsoft.com...
> Some time ago I damaged physically one of the USB 2 ports on the front of
> my
> PC, and subsequently (probably as a result) find that all the other ports,
> four at the back and the second one on the front panel, though still
> working
> are now functioning in a very degraded mode and are slower in transferring
> data by a factor of 10 or 20.
>
> There's no error or warning displayed in Device Manager against the
> Enhanced
> Host Controller, or anywhere else.
>
> Is it likely that I've broken some hardware on the motherboard, or is
> there
> any diagonstic that I can perform to clarify whether reinstalling some
> firmware or driver might fix this?
>
> At worst, I could presumably install a USB/Firewire expansion card to
> replace the failed ports.. A couple of other questions then arise: If I do
> this, will I need to delete the exisiting drivers and controllers, and so
> on,
> to avoid conflicts, and hence abandon the existing USB ports; and if so,
> am I
> likely to run into difficulties at any time, including reverting, if I
> can't
> access an XP installation disk?
>
> Many thanks for any thoughts..
>
> [Windows XP Home, SP3]

Walter M wrote:
> Some time ago I damaged physically one of the USB 2 ports on the front of my
> PC, and subsequently (probably as a result) find that all the other ports,
> four at the back and the second one on the front panel, though still working
> are now functioning in a very degraded mode and are slower in transferring
> data by a factor of 10 or 20.
>
> There's no error or warning displayed in Device Manager against the Enhanced
> Host Controller, or anywhere else.
>
> Is it likely that I've broken some hardware on the motherboard, or is there
> any diagonstic that I can perform to clarify whether reinstalling some
> firmware or driver might fix this?
>
> At worst, I could presumably install a USB/Firewire expansion card to
> replace the failed ports.. A couple of other questions then arise: If I do
> this, will I need to delete the exisiting drivers and controllers, and so on,
> to avoid conflicts, and hence abandon the existing USB ports; and if so, am I
> likely to run into difficulties at any time, including reverting, if I can't
> access an XP installation disk?
>
> Many thanks for any thoughts..
>
> [Windows XP Home, SP3]

Your cheapest alternative right now, is to install a new expansion card.
The driver installed for the card will be handled independently by
Windows. In other words, when a hardware device is added, the best
driver for the device is installed. Windows would look at the
enumeration of the new USB expansion chip, and install a separate enhanced
entry for it.

Based on the response of the new USB expansion card, you'll get a better
idea of whether your theory is correct or not - that there is a problem
with all the USB ports on the Southbridge.

When an ICH5 or ICH5R Southbridge has a latchup failure on its USB
ports, all the Southbridge USB ports fail at the same time. What
happens in that case, is wires inside the chip, connected to
the USB power source, burn out. That is just an example of a failure
where all ports can die at the same time.

The following, gives a simple walkthrough, of how they tell the difference
between USB 1.1 and USB 2.0 at the hardware level.

http://www.lvr.com/usbcenum.htm

A program like the Microsoft UVCView, can be used to get the enumeration
information from a USB device. But that doesn't tell you whether the
physical layer is damaged or has a high error rate on transmission.
It could be, that your ports are simply failing part of the
detection process for USB2 devices, and all the devices end up running
at USB 1.1 instead. While Microsoft used to host this file, it has
been removed, and now we rely on archived copies. (It might also be
part of one of their SDKs.) You'll need other information from the web,
to interpret what appears in the window.

ftp://ftp.efo.ru/pub/ftdichip/Utilities/UVCView.x86.exe
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB...VCView.x86.exe

File size is 167,232 bytes.
MD5sum is 93244d84d79314898e62d21cecc4ca5e

This is a picture of what the UVCView info looks like.

http://www.die.de/blog/content/binary/usbview.png

Some information on the parameters seen in UVCView.

http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb5.htm

Paul

No, I haven't done that - do you imply I should? I can see that might make
sense..

"JS" wrote:

> Did you disconnect the cable from the motherboard to
> the damaged front panel USB connector?
>
> JS
>
> "Walter M" <WalterM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:24CC7FF0-7137-4B81-80B6-C8958023374A@microsoft.com...
> > Some time ago I damaged physically one of the USB 2 ports on the front of
> > my
> > PC, and subsequently (probably as a result) find that all the other ports,
> > four at the back and the second one on the front panel, though still
> > working
> > are now functioning in a very degraded mode and are slower in transferring
> > data by a factor of 10 or 20.
> >
> > There's no error or warning displayed in Device Manager against the
> > Enhanced
> > Host Controller, or anywhere else.
> >
> > Is it likely that I've broken some hardware on the motherboard, or is
> > there
> > any diagonstic that I can perform to clarify whether reinstalling some
> > firmware or driver might fix this?
> >
> > At worst, I could presumably install a USB/Firewire expansion card to
> > replace the failed ports.. A couple of other questions then arise: If I do
> > this, will I need to delete the exisiting drivers and controllers, and so
> > on,
> > to avoid conflicts, and hence abandon the existing USB ports; and if so,
> > am I
> > likely to run into difficulties at any time, including reverting, if I
> > can't
> > access an XP installation disk?
> >
> > Many thanks for any thoughts..
> >
> > [Windows XP Home, SP3]
>
>
>

Thanks for all that. With your reassurance I'll go ahead and install a card..
To be honest, if that gives me proper hi-speed functionality I doubt I'll
have the resolve to investigate the existing ports further, though you give
me a lot to go on!


"Paul" wrote:

> Walter M wrote:
> > Some time ago I damaged physically one of the USB 2 ports on the front of my
> > PC, and subsequently (probably as a result) find that all the other ports,
> > four at the back and the second one on the front panel, though still working
> > are now functioning in a very degraded mode and are slower in transferring
> > data by a factor of 10 or 20.
> >
> > There's no error or warning displayed in Device Manager against the Enhanced
> > Host Controller, or anywhere else.
> >
> > Is it likely that I've broken some hardware on the motherboard, or is there
> > any diagonstic that I can perform to clarify whether reinstalling some
> > firmware or driver might fix this?
> >
> > At worst, I could presumably install a USB/Firewire expansion card to
> > replace the failed ports.. A couple of other questions then arise: If I do
> > this, will I need to delete the exisiting drivers and controllers, and so on,
> > to avoid conflicts, and hence abandon the existing USB ports; and if so, am I
> > likely to run into difficulties at any time, including reverting, if I can't
> > access an XP installation disk?
> >
> > Many thanks for any thoughts..
> >
> > [Windows XP Home, SP3]
>
> Your cheapest alternative right now, is to install a new expansion card.
> The driver installed for the card will be handled independently by
> Windows. In other words, when a hardware device is added, the best
> driver for the device is installed. Windows would look at the
> enumeration of the new USB expansion chip, and install a separate enhanced
> entry for it.
>
> Based on the response of the new USB expansion card, you'll get a better
> idea of whether your theory is correct or not - that there is a problem
> with all the USB ports on the Southbridge.
>
> When an ICH5 or ICH5R Southbridge has a latchup failure on its USB
> ports, all the Southbridge USB ports fail at the same time. What
> happens in that case, is wires inside the chip, connected to
> the USB power source, burn out. That is just an example of a failure
> where all ports can die at the same time.
>
> The following, gives a simple walkthrough, of how they tell the difference
> between USB 1.1 and USB 2.0 at the hardware level.
>
> http://www.lvr.com/usbcenum.htm
>
> A program like the Microsoft UVCView, can be used to get the enumeration
> information from a USB device. But that doesn't tell you whether the
> physical layer is damaged or has a high error rate on transmission.
> It could be, that your ports are simply failing part of the
> detection process for USB2 devices, and all the devices end up running
> at USB 1.1 instead. While Microsoft used to host this file, it has
> been removed, and now we rely on archived copies. (It might also be
> part of one of their SDKs.) You'll need other information from the web,
> to interpret what appears in the window.
>
> ftp://ftp.efo.ru/pub/ftdichip/Utilities/UVCView.x86.exe
> http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB...VCView.x86.exe
>
> File size is 167,232 bytes.
> MD5sum is 93244d84d79314898e62d21cecc4ca5e
>
> This is a picture of what the UVCView info looks like.
>
> http://www.die.de/blog/content/binary/usbview.png
>
> Some information on the parameters seen in UVCView.
>
> http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb5.htm
>
> Paul
>

Well if the USB connector is badly damaged it might have created a partial
electrical short.
At the very least it takes the damaged connector out of the picture as a
possible cause.

JS

"Walter M" <WalterM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:329A5690-7115-46F6-A799-08C43B55AD53@microsoft.com...
> No, I haven't done that - do you imply I should? I can see that might make
> sense..
>
> "JS" wrote:
>
>> Did you disconnect the cable from the motherboard to
>> the damaged front panel USB connector?
>>
>> JS
>>
>> "Walter M" <WalterM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:24CC7FF0-7137-4B81-80B6-C8958023374A@microsoft.com...
>> > Some time ago I damaged physically one of the USB 2 ports on the front
>> > of
>> > my
>> > PC, and subsequently (probably as a result) find that all the other
>> > ports,
>> > four at the back and the second one on the front panel, though still
>> > working
>> > are now functioning in a very degraded mode and are slower in
>> > transferring
>> > data by a factor of 10 or 20.
>> >
>> > There's no error or warning displayed in Device Manager against the
>> > Enhanced
>> > Host Controller, or anywhere else.
>> >
>> > Is it likely that I've broken some hardware on the motherboard, or is
>> > there
>> > any diagonstic that I can perform to clarify whether reinstalling some
>> > firmware or driver might fix this?
>> >
>> > At worst, I could presumably install a USB/Firewire expansion card to
>> > replace the failed ports.. A couple of other questions then arise: If I
>> > do
>> > this, will I need to delete the exisiting drivers and controllers, and
>> > so
>> > on,
>> > to avoid conflicts, and hence abandon the existing USB ports; and if
>> > so,
>> > am I
>> > likely to run into difficulties at any time, including reverting, if I
>> > can't
>> > access an XP installation disk?
>> >
>> > Many thanks for any thoughts..
>> >
>> > [Windows XP Home, SP3]
>>
>>
>>

JS wrote:
> Well if the USB connector is badly damaged it might have created a partial
> electrical short.

Or more likely, an open.

> At the very least it takes the damaged connector out of the picture as a
> possible cause.
>
> JS
>
> "Walter M" <WalterM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:329A5690-7115-46F6-A799-08C43B55AD53@microsoft.com...
>> No, I haven't done that - do you imply I should? I can see that might
>> make
>> sense..
>>
>> "JS" wrote:
>>
>>> Did you disconnect the cable from the motherboard to
>>> the damaged front panel USB connector?
>>>
>>> JS
>>>
>>> "Walter M" <WalterM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>> news:24CC7FF0-7137-4B81-80B6-C8958023374A@microsoft.com...
>>>> Some time ago I damaged physically one of the USB 2 ports on the front
>>>> of my PC, and subsequently (probably as a result) find that all the
>>>> other
>>>> ports, four at the back and the second one on the front panel, though
>>>> still
>>>> working are now functioning in a very degraded mode and are slower in
>>>> transferring data by a factor of 10 or 20.
>>>>
>>>> There's no error or warning displayed in Device Manager against the
>>>> Enhanced Host Controller, or anywhere else.
>>>>
>>>> Is it likely that I've broken some hardware on the motherboard, or is
>>>> there any diagonstic that I can perform to clarify whether reinstalling
>>>> some
>>>> firmware or driver might fix this?
>>>>
>>>> At worst, I could presumably install a USB/Firewire expansion card to
>>>> replace the failed ports.. A couple of other questions then arise: If I
>>>> do
>>>> this, will I need to delete the existing drivers and controllers, and
>>>> so
>>>> on, to avoid conflicts, and hence abandon the existing USB ports; and
>>>> if
>>>> so, am I likely to run into difficulties at any time, including
>>>> reverting, if I
>>>> can't access an XP installation disk?
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks for any thoughts..
>>>>
>>>> [Windows XP Home, SP3]

An open? The USB contacts by default are open in reference to themselves,
how could breaking the port make them any more open? More likely some of the
contacts are shorted

--

----
Crosspost, do not multipost http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm
How to ask a question http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375



"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:OEV7YIjBJHA.1892@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> JS wrote:
>> Well if the USB connector is badly damaged it might have created a
>> partial
>> electrical short.
>
> Or more likely, an open.
>
>> At the very least it takes the damaged connector out of the picture as a
>> possible cause.
>>
>> JS
>>
>> "Walter M" <WalterM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:329A5690-7115-46F6-A799-08C43B55AD53@microsoft.com...
>>> No, I haven't done that - do you imply I should? I can see that might
>>> make
>>> sense..
>>>
>>> "JS" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Did you disconnect the cable from the motherboard to
>>>> the damaged front panel USB connector?
>>>>
>>>> JS
>>>>
>>>> "Walter M" <WalterM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:24CC7FF0-7137-4B81-80B6-C8958023374A@microsoft.com...
>>>>> Some time ago I damaged physically one of the USB 2 ports on the front
>>>>> of my PC, and subsequently (probably as a result) find that all the
>>>>> other
>>>>> ports, four at the back and the second one on the front panel, though
>>>>> still
>>>>> working are now functioning in a very degraded mode and are slower in
>>>>> transferring data by a factor of 10 or 20.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's no error or warning displayed in Device Manager against the
>>>>> Enhanced Host Controller, or anywhere else.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it likely that I've broken some hardware on the motherboard, or is
>>>>> there any diagonstic that I can perform to clarify whether
>>>>> reinstalling some
>>>>> firmware or driver might fix this?
>>>>>
>>>>> At worst, I could presumably install a USB/Firewire expansion card to
>>>>> replace the failed ports.. A couple of other questions then arise: If
>>>>> I do
>>>>> this, will I need to delete the existing drivers and controllers, and
>>>>> so
>>>>> on, to avoid conflicts, and hence abandon the existing USB ports; and
>>>>> if
>>>>> so, am I likely to run into difficulties at any time, including
>>>>> reverting, if I
>>>>> can't access an XP installation disk?
>>>>>
>>>>> Many thanks for any thoughts..
>>>>>
>>>>> [Windows XP Home, SP3]
>
>

When you plug a device in, the presumption is that the contacts are being
made between the USB device and the USB connector (which is in turn wired to
the MB). If they aren't (for any one of them), that is an open (broken)
circuit, not a shorted one. Of course, it is possible to have a short
circuit condition between two (or more) of them, but I really expect that is
very unlikely.

David B. wrote:
> An open? The USB contacts by default are open in reference to themselves,
> how could breaking the port make them any more open? More likely some of
> the
> contacts are shorted
>
> --
>
> ----
> Crosspost, do not multipost http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm
> How to ask a question http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
>
>
>
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:OEV7YIjBJHA.1892@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> JS wrote:
>>> Well if the USB connector is badly damaged it might have created a
>>> partial
>>> electrical short.
>>
>> Or more likely, an open.
>>
>>> At the very least it takes the damaged connector out of the picture as a
>>> possible cause.
>>>
>>> JS
>>>
>>> "Walter M" <WalterM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>> news:329A5690-7115-46F6-A799-08C43B55AD53@microsoft.com...
>>>> No, I haven't done that - do you imply I should? I can see that might
>>>> make
>>>> sense..
>>>>
>>>> "JS" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Did you disconnect the cable from the motherboard to
>>>>> the damaged front panel USB connector?
>>>>>
>>>>> JS
>>>>>
>>>>> "Walter M" <WalterM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:24CC7FF0-7137-4B81-80B6-C8958023374A@microsoft.com...
>>>>>> Some time ago I damaged physically one of the USB 2 ports on the
>>>>>> front
>>>>>> of my PC, and subsequently (probably as a result) find that all the
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> ports, four at the back and the second one on the front panel, though
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> working are now functioning in a very degraded mode and are slower in
>>>>>> transferring data by a factor of 10 or 20.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's no error or warning displayed in Device Manager against the
>>>>>> Enhanced Host Controller, or anywhere else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it likely that I've broken some hardware on the motherboard, or is
>>>>>> there any diagonstic that I can perform to clarify whether
>>>>>> reinstalling some
>>>>>> firmware or driver might fix this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At worst, I could presumably install a USB/Firewire expansion card to
>>>>>> replace the failed ports.. A couple of other questions then arise: If
>>>>>> I do
>>>>>> this, will I need to delete the existing drivers and controllers, and
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> on, to avoid conflicts, and hence abandon the existing USB ports; and
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> so, am I likely to run into difficulties at any time, including
>>>>>> reverting, if I
>>>>>> can't access an XP installation disk?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many thanks for any thoughts..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [Windows XP Home, SP3]

Ahh, ok, wasn't following your first post. As far as the short, as the OP
stated that he physically damaged the front port, the likely hood of a short
is pretty good, I've seen quite a few, the plastic support piece gets broken
off inside the port, all you have left are the 4 connections, the don't have
to move much to short out.

--

----
Crosspost, do not multipost http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm
How to ask a question http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
Help Us Help You http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm



"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:e1VAnZuBJHA.4724@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> When you plug a device in, the presumption is that the contacts are being
> made between the USB device and the USB connector (which is in turn wired
> to the MB). If they aren't (for any one of them), that is an open
> (broken) circuit, not a shorted one. Of course, it is possible to have a
> short circuit condition between two (or more) of them, but I really expect
> that is very unlikely.
>
> David B. wrote:
>> An open? The USB contacts by default are open in reference to themselves,
>> how could breaking the port make them any more open? More likely some of
>> the
>> contacts are shorted
>>
>> --
>>
>> ----
>> Crosspost, do not multipost http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm
>> How to ask a question http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
>>
>>
>>
>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:OEV7YIjBJHA.1892@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> JS wrote:
>>>> Well if the USB connector is badly damaged it might have created a
>>>> partial
>>>> electrical short.
>>>
>>> Or more likely, an open.
>>>
>>>> At the very least it takes the damaged connector out of the picture as
>>>> a
>>>> possible cause.
>>>>
>>>> JS
>>>>
>>>> "Walter M" <WalterM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:329A5690-7115-46F6-A799-08C43B55AD53@microsoft.com...
>>>>> No, I haven't done that - do you imply I should? I can see that might
>>>>> make
>>>>> sense..
>>>>>
>>>>> "JS" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Did you disconnect the cable from the motherboard to
>>>>>> the damaged front panel USB connector?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JS
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Walter M" <WalterM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:24CC7FF0-7137-4B81-80B6-C8958023374A@microsoft.com...
>>>>>>> Some time ago I damaged physically one of the USB 2 ports on the
>>>>>>> front
>>>>>>> of my PC, and subsequently (probably as a result) find that all the
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> ports, four at the back and the second one on the front panel,
>>>>>>> though
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> working are now functioning in a very degraded mode and are slower
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> transferring data by a factor of 10 or 20.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's no error or warning displayed in Device Manager against the
>>>>>>> Enhanced Host Controller, or anywhere else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it likely that I've broken some hardware on the motherboard, or
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> there any diagonstic that I can perform to clarify whether
>>>>>>> reinstalling some
>>>>>>> firmware or driver might fix this?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At worst, I could presumably install a USB/Firewire expansion card
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> replace the failed ports.. A couple of other questions then arise:
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>> I do
>>>>>>> this, will I need to delete the existing drivers and controllers,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> on, to avoid conflicts, and hence abandon the existing USB ports;
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> so, am I likely to run into difficulties at any time, including
>>>>>>> reverting, if I
>>>>>>> can't access an XP installation disk?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Many thanks for any thoughts..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [Windows XP Home, SP3]
>
>