How to tell if XP on a Gateway is valid/legal???

I bought a used Gateway on Craigslist. Picking it up this afternoon.
Claims to have valid XP install and OEM reinstall disks.

How do I verify that BEFORE I hand over the cash?

MS website has all kinds of info about "indicators that
media/stickers/etc "might be pirated"...but I can't find any clear
information on how to tell FOR SURE before you buy the computer.
The Gateway site is no help. The general rule of thumb appears to be,
"we'll activate your XP if we feel like it...
sorry for any inconvenience..."

I've never had a preinstalled OEM version of XP. Do gateway computers
have pre-activated xp? 25-digit license keys?

On my retail xp system, siw.exe tells me the license key and
that the system is activated. Does that work on a preinstalled OEM
system? Is it a reliable indicator that the system can be re-activated
after making major changes?

First thing I'm gonna do with the system is upgrade the ram, hard drive
and network card. If it will let me, I'll probably upgrade from Celeron
to PIII. Then do a clean reinstall of XP. I expect that's gonna
require re-activation.

I've read horror stories that even if you have the original media and
COA and license keys, the key may have been compromised and blacklisted
by MS. So, even though a system thinks it's activated, I still
may not be able to re-activate it after changes. Yes? no?
Can MS unilaterally invalidate my installation? Silly question...
I know they can. Guess the question is, "how do I make sure that
doesn't happen?"

Can I learn anything relevant/useful with msoobe.exe?

I've got two other programs:
mgadiag.exe
and
genuinecheck.exe.
Both require an internet connection that I'm not sure is going to be
available.
If I can get hooked to the internet, do those programs give me ASSURANCE
that I won't have activation problems?

So, what do I need to do to ASSURE myself that I'm getting a used
computer with XP that MS will
let me use BEFORE I pay for it??? I really want to do this without
an internet connection...may not have one available.

I can't be the only one concerned about this. Virtually every computer
shows up used eventually. Almost the entire value of this system is in
the (valid) xp licence.

What are my options?

Thanks, mike
--
Return address is VALID!

For the installation on the computer you would have to go online and
have it pass the WGA test. For the cd/media disk you will have to
closely examine the products:
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/h...lang=en&pg=faq

How much are you paying for this used computer and how old is it? You
seem to be wanting or needing to put a lot into the machine after you
buy it. Also, you say you want to "upgrade" the processor to a PIII,
that is a nearly completely obsolete processor! If the computer is old
to the point that a PIII is an upgrade the computer isn't worth much!
You might be better off buying a newer machine.

John

mike wrote:

> I bought a used Gateway on Craigslist. Picking it up this afternoon.
> Claims to have valid XP install and OEM reinstall disks.
>
> How do I verify that BEFORE I hand over the cash?
>
> MS website has all kinds of info about "indicators that
> media/stickers/etc "might be pirated"...but I can't find any clear
> information on how to tell FOR SURE before you buy the computer.
> The Gateway site is no help. The general rule of thumb appears to be,
> "we'll activate your XP if we feel like it...
> sorry for any inconvenience..."
>
> I've never had a preinstalled OEM version of XP. Do gateway computers
> have pre-activated xp? 25-digit license keys?
>
> On my retail xp system, siw.exe tells me the license key and
> that the system is activated. Does that work on a preinstalled OEM
> system? Is it a reliable indicator that the system can be re-activated
> after making major changes?
>
> First thing I'm gonna do with the system is upgrade the ram, hard drive
> and network card. If it will let me, I'll probably upgrade from Celeron
> to PIII. Then do a clean reinstall of XP. I expect that's gonna
> require re-activation.
>
> I've read horror stories that even if you have the original media and
> COA and license keys, the key may have been compromised and blacklisted
> by MS. So, even though a system thinks it's activated, I still
> may not be able to re-activate it after changes. Yes? no?
> Can MS unilaterally invalidate my installation? Silly question...
> I know they can. Guess the question is, "how do I make sure that
> doesn't happen?"
>
> Can I learn anything relevant/useful with msoobe.exe?
>
> I've got two other programs:
> mgadiag.exe
> and
> genuinecheck.exe.
> Both require an internet connection that I'm not sure is going to be
> available.
> If I can get hooked to the internet, do those programs give me ASSURANCE
> that I won't have activation problems?
>
> So, what do I need to do to ASSURE myself that I'm getting a used
> computer with XP that MS will
> let me use BEFORE I pay for it??? I really want to do this without
> an internet connection...may not have one available.
>
> I can't be the only one concerned about this. Virtually every computer
> shows up used eventually. Almost the entire value of this system is in
> the (valid) xp licence.
>
> What are my options?
>
> Thanks, mike

mike wrote:
> I bought a used Gateway on Craigslist. Picking it up this
> afternoon. Claims to have valid XP install and OEM reinstall disks.
>
> How do I verify that BEFORE I hand over the cash?
>
> MS website has all kinds of info about "indicators that
> media/stickers/etc "might be pirated"...but I can't find any clear
> information on how to tell FOR SURE before you buy the computer.
> The Gateway site is no help. The general rule of thumb appears to
> be, "we'll activate your XP if we feel like it...
> sorry for any inconvenience..."
>
> I've never had a preinstalled OEM version of XP. Do gateway
> computers have pre-activated xp? 25-digit license keys?
>
> On my retail xp system, siw.exe tells me the license key and
> that the system is activated. Does that work on a preinstalled OEM
> system? Is it a reliable indicator that the system can be
> re-activated after making major changes?
>
> First thing I'm gonna do with the system is upgrade the ram, hard
> drive and network card. If it will let me, I'll probably upgrade
> from Celeron to PIII. Then do a clean reinstall of XP. I expect
> that's gonna require re-activation.
>
> I've read horror stories that even if you have the original media
> and COA and license keys, the key may have been compromised and
> blacklisted by MS. So, even though a system thinks it's activated,
> I still may not be able to re-activate it after changes. Yes? no?
> Can MS unilaterally invalidate my installation? Silly question...
> I know they can. Guess the question is, "how do I make sure that
> doesn't happen?"
>
> Can I learn anything relevant/useful with msoobe.exe?
>
> I've got two other programs:
> mgadiag.exe
> and
> genuinecheck.exe.
> Both require an internet connection that I'm not sure is going to be
> available.
> If I can get hooked to the internet, do those programs give me
> ASSURANCE that I won't have activation problems?
>
> So, what do I need to do to ASSURE myself that I'm getting a used
> computer with XP that MS will
> let me use BEFORE I pay for it??? I really want to do this without
> an internet connection...may not have one available.
>
> I can't be the only one concerned about this. Virtually every
> computer shows up used eventually. Almost the entire value of this
> system is in the (valid) xp licence.
>
> What are my options?

Your best option...

Order a refurbished computer from online (reputable dealer) and know that
you have a machine that is better than a PIII, required you to do nothing
and will have a legitimate OS license.

Example:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...asp?CatId=2628

I just think you would be better off and have the piece of mind you are
looking for.

(If you were buying this computer for $100 and it has a legitimate
everything - you are already talking about upgrading the processor (which
might require a new motherboard and new memory), hard disk drive and network
card... So you are looking at at least another $100 there - why not take
your $200 and maybe add a bit more and get a refurbished PC with everything
you want and more to start with?)

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Shenan Stanley wrote:
> mike wrote:
>> I bought a used Gateway on Craigslist. Picking it up this
>> afternoon. Claims to have valid XP install and OEM reinstall disks.
>>
>> How do I verify that BEFORE I hand over the cash?
>>
>> MS website has all kinds of info about "indicators that
>> media/stickers/etc "might be pirated"...but I can't find any clear
>> information on how to tell FOR SURE before you buy the computer.
>> The Gateway site is no help. The general rule of thumb appears to
>> be, "we'll activate your XP if we feel like it...
>> sorry for any inconvenience..."
>>
>> I've never had a preinstalled OEM version of XP. Do gateway
>> computers have pre-activated xp? 25-digit license keys?
>>
>> On my retail xp system, siw.exe tells me the license key and
>> that the system is activated. Does that work on a preinstalled OEM
>> system? Is it a reliable indicator that the system can be
>> re-activated after making major changes?
>>
>> First thing I'm gonna do with the system is upgrade the ram, hard
>> drive and network card. If it will let me, I'll probably upgrade
>> from Celeron to PIII. Then do a clean reinstall of XP. I expect
>> that's gonna require re-activation.
>>
>> I've read horror stories that even if you have the original media
>> and COA and license keys, the key may have been compromised and
>> blacklisted by MS. So, even though a system thinks it's activated,
>> I still may not be able to re-activate it after changes. Yes? no?
>> Can MS unilaterally invalidate my installation? Silly question...
>> I know they can. Guess the question is, "how do I make sure that
>> doesn't happen?"
>>
>> Can I learn anything relevant/useful with msoobe.exe?
>>
>> I've got two other programs:
>> mgadiag.exe
>> and
>> genuinecheck.exe.
>> Both require an internet connection that I'm not sure is going to be
>> available.
>> If I can get hooked to the internet, do those programs give me
>> ASSURANCE that I won't have activation problems?
>>
>> So, what do I need to do to ASSURE myself that I'm getting a used
>> computer with XP that MS will
>> let me use BEFORE I pay for it??? I really want to do this without
>> an internet connection...may not have one available.
>>
>> I can't be the only one concerned about this. Virtually every
>> computer shows up used eventually. Almost the entire value of this
>> system is in the (valid) xp licence.
>>
>> What are my options?
>
> Your best option...
>
> Order a refurbished computer from online (reputable dealer) and know that
> you have a machine that is better than a PIII, required you to do nothing
> and will have a legitimate OS license.
>
> Example:
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...asp?CatId=2628
>
> I just think you would be better off and have the piece of mind you are
> looking for.
>
> (If you were buying this computer for $100 and it has a legitimate
> everything - you are already talking about upgrading the processor (which
> might require a new motherboard and new memory), hard disk drive and network
> card... So you are looking at at least another $100 there - why not take
> your $200 and maybe add a bit more and get a refurbished PC with everything
> you want and more to start with?)
>
Thanks for the response, but I didn't ask for advice on whether I should
buy the computer hardware.

I asked for advice on how to VERIFY that the XP install is legit.

Yes, a 1.2G Celeron is plenty fast enough for what needs done.
The other upgrade parts are coming out of another machine I already
have. The total cost of the computer is about as cheap as the cheapest
XP license I've found from a commercial dealer.
When I'm done, I'll have a $40 XP system and a second computer of
leftovers that I can sell. And it's not even MY $40. It's a hardware
no-brainer.

I don't have any hardware issues at all. The ONLY issue is whether
microsoft will let me use the OS software I bought with this used computer.

--
Return address is VALID!

mike wrote:
> I bought a used Gateway on Craigslist. Picking it up this
> afternoon. Claims to have valid XP install and OEM reinstall disks.
>
> How do I verify that BEFORE I hand over the cash?
>
> MS website has all kinds of info about "indicators that
> media/stickers/etc "might be pirated"...but I can't find any clear
> information on how to tell FOR SURE before you buy the computer.
> The Gateway site is no help. The general rule of thumb appears to
> be, "we'll activate your XP if we feel like it...
> sorry for any inconvenience..."
>
> I've never had a preinstalled OEM version of XP. Do gateway
> computers have pre-activated xp? 25-digit license keys?
>
> On my retail xp system, siw.exe tells me the license key and
> that the system is activated. Does that work on a preinstalled OEM
> system? Is it a reliable indicator that the system can be
> re-activated after making major changes?
>
> First thing I'm gonna do with the system is upgrade the ram, hard
> drive and network card. If it will let me, I'll probably upgrade
> from Celeron to PIII. Then do a clean reinstall of XP. I expect
> that's gonna require re-activation.
>
> I've read horror stories that even if you have the original media
> and COA and license keys, the key may have been compromised and
> blacklisted by MS. So, even though a system thinks it's activated,
> I still may not be able to re-activate it after changes. Yes? no?
> Can MS unilaterally invalidate my installation? Silly question...
> I know they can. Guess the question is, "how do I make sure that
> doesn't happen?"
>
> Can I learn anything relevant/useful with msoobe.exe?
>
> I've got two other programs:
> mgadiag.exe
> and
> genuinecheck.exe.
> Both require an internet connection that I'm not sure is going to be
> available.
> If I can get hooked to the internet, do those programs give me
> ASSURANCE that I won't have activation problems?
>
> So, what do I need to do to ASSURE myself that I'm getting a used
> computer with XP that MS will
> let me use BEFORE I pay for it??? I really want to do this without
> an internet connection...may not have one available.
>
> I can't be the only one concerned about this. Virtually every
> computer shows up used eventually. Almost the entire value of this
> system is in the (valid) xp licence.
>
> What are my options?

Shenan Stanley wrote:
> Your best option...
>
> Order a refurbished computer from online (reputable dealer) and
> know that you have a machine that is better than a PIII, required
> you to do nothing and will have a legitimate OS license.
>
> Example:
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...asp?CatId=2628
>
> I just think you would be better off and have the piece of mind you
> are looking for.
>
> (If you were buying this computer for $100 and it has a legitimate
> everything - you are already talking about upgrading the processor
> (which might require a new motherboard and new memory), hard disk
> drive and network card... So you are looking at at least another
> $100 there - why not take your $200 and maybe add a bit more and
> get a refurbished PC with everything you want and more to start
> with?)

mike wrote:
> Thanks for the response, but I didn't ask for advice on whether I
> should buy the computer hardware.
>
> I asked for advice on how to VERIFY that the XP install is legit.
>
> Yes, a 1.2G Celeron is plenty fast enough for what needs done.
> The other upgrade parts are coming out of another machine I already
> have. The total cost of the computer is about as cheap as the
> cheapest XP license I've found from a commercial dealer.
> When I'm done, I'll have a $40 XP system and a second computer of
> leftovers that I can sell. And it's not even MY $40. It's a
> hardware no-brainer.
>
> I don't have any hardware issues at all. The ONLY issue is whether
> microsoft will let me use the OS software I bought with this used
> computer.

*shrug*
Your $40.

You've been told already (elsewhere in this conversation) how to tell if it
is legit. Even that is no guarantee.

Make sure you get the original installation media with it and the *product
key*. Without at least the product key and the type of media (license
type - OEM, Retail, Upgrade, etc) that product key goes with - your $40 is
wasted for what your given intentions are.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Shenan Stanley wrote:
> mike wrote:
>> I bought a used Gateway on Craigslist. Picking it up this
>> afternoon. Claims to have valid XP install and OEM reinstall disks.
>>
>> How do I verify that BEFORE I hand over the cash?
>>
>> MS website has all kinds of info about "indicators that
>> media/stickers/etc "might be pirated"...but I can't find any clear
>> information on how to tell FOR SURE before you buy the computer.
>> The Gateway site is no help. The general rule of thumb appears to
>> be, "we'll activate your XP if we feel like it...
>> sorry for any inconvenience..."
>>
>> I've never had a preinstalled OEM version of XP. Do gateway
>> computers have pre-activated xp? 25-digit license keys?
>>
>> On my retail xp system, siw.exe tells me the license key and
>> that the system is activated. Does that work on a preinstalled OEM
>> system? Is it a reliable indicator that the system can be
>> re-activated after making major changes?
>>
>> First thing I'm gonna do with the system is upgrade the ram, hard
>> drive and network card. If it will let me, I'll probably upgrade
>> from Celeron to PIII. Then do a clean reinstall of XP. I expect
>> that's gonna require re-activation.
>>
>> I've read horror stories that even if you have the original media
>> and COA and license keys, the key may have been compromised and
>> blacklisted by MS. So, even though a system thinks it's activated,
>> I still may not be able to re-activate it after changes. Yes? no?
>> Can MS unilaterally invalidate my installation? Silly question...
>> I know they can. Guess the question is, "how do I make sure that
>> doesn't happen?"
>>
>> Can I learn anything relevant/useful with msoobe.exe?
>>
>> I've got two other programs:
>> mgadiag.exe
>> and
>> genuinecheck.exe.
>> Both require an internet connection that I'm not sure is going to be
>> available.
>> If I can get hooked to the internet, do those programs give me
>> ASSURANCE that I won't have activation problems?
>>
>> So, what do I need to do to ASSURE myself that I'm getting a used
>> computer with XP that MS will
>> let me use BEFORE I pay for it??? I really want to do this without
>> an internet connection...may not have one available.
>>
>> I can't be the only one concerned about this. Virtually every
>> computer shows up used eventually. Almost the entire value of this
>> system is in the (valid) xp licence.
>>
>> What are my options?
>
> Shenan Stanley wrote:
>> Your best option...
>>
>> Order a refurbished computer from online (reputable dealer) and
>> know that you have a machine that is better than a PIII, required
>> you to do nothing and will have a legitimate OS license.
>>
>> Example:
>> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...asp?CatId=2628
>>
>> I just think you would be better off and have the piece of mind you
>> are looking for.
>>
>> (If you were buying this computer for $100 and it has a legitimate
>> everything - you are already talking about upgrading the processor
>> (which might require a new motherboard and new memory), hard disk
>> drive and network card... So you are looking at at least another
>> $100 there - why not take your $200 and maybe add a bit more and
>> get a refurbished PC with everything you want and more to start
>> with?)
>
> mike wrote:
>> Thanks for the response, but I didn't ask for advice on whether I
>> should buy the computer hardware.
>>
>> I asked for advice on how to VERIFY that the XP install is legit.
>>
>> Yes, a 1.2G Celeron is plenty fast enough for what needs done.
>> The other upgrade parts are coming out of another machine I already
>> have. The total cost of the computer is about as cheap as the
>> cheapest XP license I've found from a commercial dealer.
>> When I'm done, I'll have a $40 XP system and a second computer of
>> leftovers that I can sell. And it's not even MY $40. It's a
>> hardware no-brainer.
>>
>> I don't have any hardware issues at all. The ONLY issue is whether
>> microsoft will let me use the OS software I bought with this used
>> computer.
>
> *shrug*
> Your $40.
>
> You've been told already (elsewhere in this conversation) how to tell if it
> is legit. Even that is no guarantee.
>
> Make sure you get the original installation media with it and the *product
> key*. Without at least the product key and the type of media (license
> type - OEM, Retail, Upgrade, etc) that product key goes with - your $40 is
> wasted for what your given intentions are.
>
Ok, I tried to get answers to a lot of questions in one email so there'd
be some hope of an answer before I have to go look at the hardware.

Let's ask ONE question at a time...

Here's a worst case scenario:
Seller copies the software and key.
I buy the hardware, software, coa, key, everything. The product is
activated and working.

Seller publishes the license key on a hacker site and 101 people try to
activate XP with that key. Lights flash and bells ring at MS. The key
gets blacklisted.

I rebuild the hardware and try to re-activate my VALID version of the
software.

Will MY software install validate???? And what do I do if it won't?
Or maybe it's only two other systems with my key. Is that different?

No amount of examining holograms and security threads will help me with
this question.

And yes, I do want a guarantee. Somebody paid MS big bux for a computer
with
licensed XP. I bought it used. I expect MS to honor the terms of the
license I purchased and GUARANTEE me a way to make it work. If someone
else stole, stumbled on or otherwise obtained my license key, it's their
problem, not mine. When the license keys are published on the outside
of the package or required to be on a sticker attached to the outside of
the computer,
there's no way to protect it from being compromised.

--
Return address is VALID!

mike wrote:
> Ok, I tried to get answers to a lot of questions in one email so
> there'd be some hope of an answer before I have to go look at the
> hardware.
> Let's ask ONE question at a time...
>
> Here's a worst case scenario:
> Seller copies the software and key.
> I buy the hardware, software, coa, key, everything. The product is
> activated and working.
>
> Seller publishes the license key on a hacker site and 101 people
> try to activate XP with that key. Lights flash and bells ring at
> MS. The key gets blacklisted.
>
> I rebuild the hardware and try to re-activate my VALID version of
> the software.
>
> Will MY software install validate???? And what do I do if it won't?
> Or maybe it's only two other systems with my key. Is that
> different?

You would likely be stuck purchasing a copy of Windows XP from a legitimate
dealer at this point - if you can even do it by the time this happens. You
can try to call Microsoft and explain your situation - but since you are
buying from an individual and not a store in the case you have given - your
receipt (if you get one) would probably be of no use to anyone.

> No amount of examining holograms and security threads will help me
> with this question.
>
> And yes, I do want a guarantee. Somebody paid MS big bux for a
> computer with licensed XP. I bought it used. I expect MS to honor the
> terms of
> the license I purchased and GUARANTEE me a way to make it work.

If this computer *came with* (originally) Windows XP - the OEM (original
equipment manufacturer) screwed you out of that guarantee from anyone but
them. They decided to use OEM software so they could sell the systems a
little cheaper. In doing that, *they* (the people who originally
manufactuered the system and installed the OS onto it and packaged it with
it - like Dell, IBM, HP, Gateway, etc and so on) have taken the
responsibility of OS support from Microsoft in accordance with the OEM
licensing agreement.

> If someone else stole, stumbled on or otherwise obtained my
> license key, it's their problem, not mine. When the license keys
> are published on the outside of the package or required to be
> on a sticker attached to the outside of the computer,
> there's no way to protect it from being compromised.

Correct. The OEM of the computer knows this too - isn't it nice they
decided to do it anyway? Save a buck, sell more computers and make more
money.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Shenan Stanley wrote:
> mike wrote:
>> Ok, I tried to get answers to a lot of questions in one email so
>> there'd be some hope of an answer before I have to go look at the
>> hardware.
>> Let's ask ONE question at a time...
>>
>> Here's a worst case scenario:
>> Seller copies the software and key.
>> I buy the hardware, software, coa, key, everything. The product is
>> activated and working.
>>
>> Seller publishes the license key on a hacker site and 101 people
>> try to activate XP with that key. Lights flash and bells ring at
>> MS. The key gets blacklisted.
>>
>> I rebuild the hardware and try to re-activate my VALID version of
>> the software.
>>
>> Will MY software install validate???? And what do I do if it won't?
>> Or maybe it's only two other systems with my key. Is that
>> different?
>
> You would likely be stuck purchasing a copy of Windows XP from a legitimate
> dealer at this point - if you can even do it by the time this happens. You
> can try to call Microsoft and explain your situation - but since you are
> buying from an individual and not a store in the case you have given - your
> receipt (if you get one) would probably be of no use to anyone.
>
>> No amount of examining holograms and security threads will help me
>> with this question.
>>
>> And yes, I do want a guarantee. Somebody paid MS big bux for a
>> computer with licensed XP. I bought it used. I expect MS to honor the
>> terms of
>> the license I purchased and GUARANTEE me a way to make it work.
>
> If this computer *came with* (originally) Windows XP - the OEM (original
> equipment manufacturer) screwed you out of that guarantee from anyone but
> them. They decided to use OEM software so they could sell the systems a
> little cheaper. In doing that, *they* (the people who originally
> manufactuered the system and installed the OS onto it and packaged it with
> it - like Dell, IBM, HP, Gateway, etc and so on) have taken the
> responsibility of OS support from Microsoft in accordance with the OEM
> licensing agreement.
>
>> If someone else stole, stumbled on or otherwise obtained my
>> license key, it's their problem, not mine. When the license keys
>> are published on the outside of the package or required to be
>> on a sticker attached to the outside of the computer,
>> there's no way to protect it from being compromised.
>
> Correct. The OEM of the computer knows this too - isn't it nice they
> decided to do it anyway? Save a buck, sell more computers and make more
> money.
>
Nice deflection try. The licensing restrictions are entirely dictated
by MS. Gateway will NEVER do anything to make my system
STOP working...EVER!!!

I do NOT need ANY operating system support from anyone.
All I need is for MS NOT
to DISABLE my working OS due to the actions of others. If I could count
on MS to "DO NOTHING" I'd be a happy camper.

The secrecy and uncertainty of this issue puts a big black cloud over
the used computer market. Just another way to force more money out of
customers who'd be happy with old technology. Donchajustlove
Capitalism...the single source/monopoly kind...

Thanks for the discussion. I gotta go elsewhere to try to find some help.

--
Return address is VALID!

mike wrote:
> Shenan Stanley wrote:
>> mike wrote:
>>> Ok, I tried to get answers to a lot of questions in one email so
>>> there'd be some hope of an answer before I have to go look at the
>>> hardware.
>>> Let's ask ONE question at a time...
>>>
>>> Here's a worst case scenario:
>>> Seller copies the software and key.
>>> I buy the hardware, software, coa, key, everything. The product
>>> is activated and working.
>>>
>>> Seller publishes the license key on a hacker site and 101 people
>>> try to activate XP with that key. Lights flash and bells ring at
>>> MS. The key gets blacklisted.
>>>
>>> I rebuild the hardware and try to re-activate my VALID version of
>>> the software.
>>>
>>> Will MY software install validate???? And what do I do if it
>>> won't? Or maybe it's only two other systems with my key. Is that
>>> different?
>>
>> You would likely be stuck purchasing a copy of Windows XP from a
>> legitimate dealer at this point - if you can even do it by the
>> time this happens. You can try to call Microsoft and explain your
>> situation - but since you are buying from an individual and not a
>> store in the case you have given - your receipt (if you get one)
>> would probably be of no use to anyone.
>>> No amount of examining holograms and security threads will help me
>>> with this question.
>>>
>>> And yes, I do want a guarantee. Somebody paid MS big bux for a
>>> computer with licensed XP. I bought it used. I expect MS to
>>> honor the terms of
>>> the license I purchased and GUARANTEE me a way to make it work.
>>
>> If this computer *came with* (originally) Windows XP - the OEM
>> (original equipment manufacturer) screwed you out of that
>> guarantee from anyone but them. They decided to use OEM software
>> so they could sell the systems a little cheaper. In doing that,
>> *they* (the people who originally manufactuered the system and
>> installed the OS onto it and packaged it with it - like Dell, IBM,
>> HP, Gateway, etc and so on) have taken the responsibility of OS
>> support from Microsoft in accordance with the OEM licensing
>> agreement.
>>> If someone else stole, stumbled on or otherwise obtained my
>>> license key, it's their problem, not mine. When the license keys
>>> are published on the outside of the package or required to be
>>> on a sticker attached to the outside of the computer,
>>> there's no way to protect it from being compromised.
>>
>> Correct. The OEM of the computer knows this too - isn't it nice
>> they decided to do it anyway? Save a buck, sell more computers
>> and make more money.
>>
> Nice deflection try. The licensing restrictions are entirely
> dictated by MS. Gateway will NEVER do anything to make my system
> STOP working...EVER!!!
>
> I do NOT need ANY operating system support from anyone.
> All I need is for MS NOT
> to DISABLE my working OS due to the actions of others. If I could
> count on MS to "DO NOTHING" I'd be a happy camper.
>
> The secrecy and uncertainty of this issue puts a big black cloud
> over the used computer market. Just another way to force more money out
> of customers who'd be happy with old technology. Donchajustlove
> Capitalism...the single source/monopoly kind...
>
> Thanks for the discussion. I gotta go elsewhere to try to find
> some help.

Gateway *did* do something. They choose to sell you a crippled license.
They read the license agreement as well - you'd hope. You can blame
Microsoft all you want - but in the end - it's whomever agreed to abide by
the license they were given - you, Gateway, etc. No one made any of them
agree - they had choices. They could sell with another OS, they could sell
with retail only licenses. You could buy with no OS and buy a retail copy.

In other words - it's not deflection - it's fact. Choices are made for
money reasons. Gateway is just as guilty as Microsoft. You are just as
guilty as Gateway. Each of you had a choice.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html